Category: Interview

ADVICE, Interview, People1 Comment

Steve Tao: Riding the Current Programming Wave

|Steve.Tao|

Steve Tao. When we first met, I knew we were going to be fast friends due to our love of flea markets and Melrose Place. Steve is smart, Uber passionate… and don’t get him started on how to travel! That subject deserves a whole other Q&A.

Steve is a Current Executive at the CW and found time to share some of his past, some tips, what his latest binge worthy show is and for someone so gregarious (at least I think so) a reveal that really surprised me about him. 

RS: Where did you grow up? 

ST: Palo Alto, CA, when it was a college town, not a Silicon Valley hub.

RS: Who was your best friend growing up? What was something they taught you?

ST: My next door neighbor Lisa, who taught me curiosity (we got into a lot of trouble.)

RS: Who was your favorite mentor and why?

ST: Julie Rothenberg, an assistant at the first company I interned for, who saw I could do more than make copies and coffee and connected me to a producer who let me read scripts and write coverage for him. She became a colleague and confidant.

RS: What is the best advice you’ve ever received? 

ST: Don’t get mad; get even. I’ve been disappointed by people I respected, screwed over by people I didn’t trust, and abandoned by people I thought were my friends. I learned that my own success was the best revenge.

On the best advice: I learned that my own success was the best revenge.

RS: You’ve worked in both development and current. What has been the best experience from both sides of the coin? The worst?

ST: Best: being the Head of Drama at ABC, where I could buy projects from up and coming writers in the room, and work with showrunners like David Kelley, Ann Donahue, and Howard Gordon. Worst:  (Development) Being an independent producer trying to sell shows during the economic downturn of the late 2000s when no one would buy and trying to figure out how to pay my mortgage); (Current) Being a producer on a show that didn’t work, where we ripped apart episodic scripts, moved episodes around, and had to convince our writing staff not to bail. I’m still traumatized by the last experience!

RS: I found this question on Google, so I can’t take credit for it, but I love it. Describe your job to an extraterrestrial who just landed in Central Park. 

ST: I help people make TV shows.

RS: You’ve been doing this job for many years. How do you remain challenged? 

ST: The nature of storytelling has changed over the years. I used to do a lot of cop and legal procedurals; now I work on serialized and genre shows. We used to tell a one hour episode in 46 minutes in broadcast; now we do it in 42 minutes. I’ve been on the buying side, the selling side, and the producing side. I still love making shows that people watch and I love the emotional impact the show (my shows) have on audiences. Finding shows that reach an ever evolving audience is what keeps me going.

Finding shows that reach an ever evolving audience is what keeps me going.

RS: When you feel stagnate, how do you snap yourself out of that state of being?

ST: I travel to a place to give me a different perspective.

RS: Name one embarrassing moment you’ve experienced as an executive.

ST: I was interviewing an executive candidate and got his name wrong. The entire interview. I apologized over email after he left. Mortifying.

RS: What’s something about you not reflected in your Bio? 

ST: I want to learn how to speak Mandarin fluently.

RS: What’s something about you that would surprise those that know you?

ST: I am shy. Really.  (Side Note: This surprised me!) 

RS: When staffing a show, what do you look for in a writer? What will knock the writer out of the running? 

ST: I’m looking for someone who can create good characters, give the characters interesting dilemmas or choices, and find an entertaining story. I want to remember the writing, not just think it’s fine. If it’s just fine, then I’m on to the next.

Give characters interesting dilemmas or choices. I want to remember the writing, not just think it’s fine.

RS: When reading scripts for staffing, how many pages do you need to read before you know this person is either right or wrong for a specific staffing job? 

ST: I know in the first ten pages, but usually read 20-30.

RS: What’s important to you as far as character descriptions in a script? What are the right amount of adjectives to use? To describe a character?   

ST: I like to experience the character in the script, not just be told the characteristics in the narrative. I like writers who bring out their characters in their actions and choices.

RS: How do you give dialogue notes? 

ST: I usually only give dialogue notes if something doesn’t fit with the character arc, or if it’s confusing to me. I rarely quote the line that I would prefer to have, but give them an idea of what I’d like.

On giving dialogue notes: Only give if something doesn’t fit with the character arc or is confusing.

RS: How have you evolved in your note giving?

ST: I’m faster. I’m still diplomatic and supportive, but writers want to hear the notes and start addressing them. They want to know what you like in a script, and what you think needs work.

RS: What do you think the biggest challenge is (that we face) in our business? 

ST: The biggest challenge is the way the audience receives our shows, and how we as creators can monetize the viewership so we can keep making these shows.

RS: At the end of the film Castaway, Tom Hanks stands at a fork in the road… looking at the four corners for a sign as far as the best way to move forward in his life. Did you ever have that moment where you grappled with which road to go down? What did you grapple with?  

ST: I’ve had so many forks in the road; the biggest one was whether or not to move to New York to work for a cable company getting into the scripted business. Then 9/11 happened and scripted didn’t happen, so I got off that path and found one that got me back to Los Angeles.

RS: I know one of your favorite things to do is to travel.  What has been your best vacation thus far?  Why?

ST: Just recently, we honeymooned in The Maldives. Best. Vacation. Ever. We relaxed, we saw some of the most beautiful marine life ever, and we ate some of the freshest seafood ever, while meeting friends from all over the world. If that doesn’t qualify for a perfect vacation, I don’t know what does. Oh, and we checked off my bucket list to stay in an overwater bungalow.

RS: Is there anything you’re obsessed with right now? 

ST: Finding something interesting to watch on TV.  Seems like we’ve binged everything good lately.

RS: What’s the last show you binge watched?

ST: MARE OF EASTTOWN in two nights.

RS: What are some of your hobbies…. that get your creative juices going?

ST: I cook. It’s creative and rewarding.

RS: What character on a show mirrors who you are or encapsulates your traits? 

ST: I’m unique. No character is like me!

RS: Proudest career moment? 

ST: The show I championed (THE PRACTICE at ABC) winning the Emmy for Outstanding Drama. The show was not a favorite at the network at first, but I loved it and championed it until it got the attention it deserved.

And there you have it. The stupendous Steve Tao in a nutshell! 

For more on current programming from a different perspective, you might like: https://rebecca-stay.com/eric-kim-current-executive-extraordinaire

Bio: 

Steve Tao is a veteran film and television executive and producer with more than twenty years of experience at Studios, Networks, and Production Companies. He started his career as a film executive at Walt Disney and Touchstone Pictures working on films such as THE THREE MUSKETEERS and HOCUS POCUS.  He then moved to television and became Head of Drama for ABC Television, where he led the Emmy Award winning THE PRACTICE, ONCE AND AGAIN, and NYPD BLUE.  Afters stints with VH1, Gale Anne Hurd’s company Valhalla Television, and JJ Abrams’ Bad Robot, he is currently VP of Current Programming at the CW Network, where he oversees many of the network’s biggest hits, including WALKER (highest rated new show on the CW since 2015), ALL AMERICAN (highest ranked digital show), BATWOMAN (highest rated new show last year), and KUNG FU (highest rated show among Asian Americans).

A native Californian, he earned his B.A. in Economics and Mathematics at Claremont McKenna College in Claremont, California.  He also earned an M.B.A. from the Anderson Graduate School of Management at UCLA.  He currently serves as the co-chair of the CAPE New Writers Fellowship for the Coalition of Asian Pacifics In Entertainment (www.capeusa.org), one of the largest professional groups in Hollywood, where he recently retired as Board Chairman.  He also serves as an Advisory Board member for the Claremont in Entertainment and Media alumni group for the Claremont Colleges.  He’s an avid traveler, foodie, and consumer of all things pop culture.

You can find Steve on Instagram and Twitter: @MileageRunner

ADVICE, Interview, People

Sheelin Choksey: A TV Director’s POV

|Sheelin Choksey|

Sheelin. We met while both working at Shephard/Robin Prods. I was an executive at the time and he came in as Mike Robin’s assistant. He was kind, funny, soft spoken and always ready to help. Following in Mike’s footsteps, Sheelin worked his way up the production ladder with an eye on directing. Several years in, he finally got his shot and no surprise, proved himself time and time again within the company.

I pride myself on being able to spot talent and even then I knew he’d be one who would shine brightly one day. Others are now following suit and recognizing his gifts. (And yes, I know… easy to say now!)

Clearly his time has come and he was kind (yet again) to take time out – to share some tidbits – from shooting in Atlanta, overseeing a (Greg) Berlanti show.

RS:  Who gave you your first shot at directing? Were you ready? 

SC:  Michael Robin, who was the Executive Producer/Director of THE CLOSER gave me my first shot. I was ready because I had spent so much time in the editing room (due to my post production experience). I had also shot a few short films — it’s good to stay ready for when those bigger directing opportunities come along, which is a complete mental and physical workout.

RS:  What most about your own life has shaped you as a director? 

SC:  I think my desire to listen. I find people fascinating and I naturally listen more than I talk — I think that’s maybe my best quality as a director — to listen to various opinions and then choose the right course of action to tell the story.

My best quality as a director is I find people fascinating and I naturally listen more than I talk.

RS:  When it comes to Diversity, we’re finally taking a small turn for the better, but roles in front of and behind the camera (in both TV and in Film) are still playing catch up as far as truly mirroring real life diversity. In your opinion, is there anything that isn’t being discussed? 

SC:  Personally, I think the door had to be knocked off its hinges to make any real changes, and I believe that has happened. Diversity is a concept that is here to stay, and that’s a good thing, but I feel we need to let it evolve on its own — in its own natural way or there could be a needless pendulum shift in the other direction. The good news is we are headed in the right direction and I think we’ll be there in a couple of years.

RS: What has been the hardest to overcome for you in our industry?  

SC:  You have to have a thick skin — or at least you did when I came up. Don’t let your ego get in the way of story. In other words, story is king and everything else solves itself. Be a nice person and chase the best way to tell the story in the most effective way possible.

RS:  What are some mistakes you’ve made along the way? Not in a general sense, I’d love to hear specifics. 

SC:  I’ve listened to others TOO much in the past. I took folk’s (especially higher ups thoughts/comments/criticisms) too personally and too literally sometimes. I’ve sat in tone meetings and listened to what the writer wanted and took each word as gospel. Art cannot be interpreted like refrigerator repair instructions. And yes, even when they were presented that way — you must resist taking notes literally.

You must resist taking notes literally. It must be your interpretation of the story.

You have to translate those notes through your brain and tell the story as you see it. For instance, the first time an actor asks a question that you and the writer didn’t discuss in the tone meeting, you will not know what to say. Never forget that once you’re on the floor shooting, you as the director are the lead storyteller. It MUST be YOUR interpretation of the story or you will second guess yourself into the nut house.

RS:  As a director, what do you look for in a script? 

SC:  I always look for what the writer is painting on the page. I look for strong vivid images, whether they are on the page or inferred. Sometimes they are there, but sometimes you have to mine for them. In the end, this is a visual medium and that can’t be ignored on a script level.

RS:  Do you have any pet peeves when it comes to the script? That a writer should be mindful of? 

SC:  I like when a script is clear, but not literal. For example, I don’t need to see, “We start TIGHT on a basketball and then slowly start to CRANE away and then DOLLY across to reveal a full court game in progress.” This is a limiting way to express the shot that the writer sees in their head. Be careful because it will limit the thought of a lot of great filmmakers you have working for you.

RS:  What makes a great character? 

SC:  They need to be proactive, NEVER reactive. And I also think (in some way) they need to be the smartest person in the room. Not necessarily in IQ, but some aspect of their emotional intelligence must separate them from the others.

A great character needs to be proactive, NEVER reactive.

RS: How much do you rely on the writer (on set) when directing? 

SC: I love when the writer gets me out of a jam with actors. I need them to sometimes clarify the tone of a story point as they have lived with it in the writer’s room for months. They can speak to intent more than I can because they have more information. Also, from the writer, I sometimes need validation that I’m going in the right direction and (although seldom) I need them to push me in another direction. They need to be judicious and careful with that most of the time.

RS:  What’s your favorite part of directing? Working with the actors? Setting up a challenging shot? Problem solving? 

SC:  There’s nothing better to me than being in a scout van and prepping an upcoming episode with my filmmaking partners (DP, Production Designer, Line Producer, Gaffer, etc.).

There’s nothing better to me than being in a scout van. That’s when so many creative decisions are curated.

We go from location to location to pick what we need to tell the story, but the real magic happens inside the van. That’s when so many creative decisions are curated — these other skilled filmmakers never cease to amaze me and they make my work so much more textured than if it was JUST me. For me, the scout van is literally a think tank.

RS:  Is there a specific genre you’re drawn to? 

SC:  I grew up a Twilight Zone junky. I love stripped down fantasy/sci-fi like Close Encounters of the Third Kind. That’s right in my wheelhouse. Something more recent might be Man in the High Castle. Another part of me loves the crime genre. Good directing is good directing and a good director can tell stories in all genres.

RS:  Last question. What won’t we find in your bio that might surprise us about you? 

SC:  I find being on set directing is the greatest escape on earth. I lose myself in the work and in the people and nothing exists beyond those stage doors. It’s the most therapeutic part of my life.

You know what was therapeutic? This time with Sheelin!

For more like this one, try: https://rebecca-stay.com/order-up-the-fabulous-lauren-iungerich

Bio: 

Sheelin Choksey is currently a CO-EP on the CW’s STARGIRL. Sheelin was a Co-Executive Producer on the sixth season of TNT’S hit series, MAJOR CRIMES. Prior to his promotion to Co-Executive Producer, Sheelin was the Producer/Director on seasons 1-5 and directed fourteen episodes throughout his tenure on the series. Predominantly working within the Shephard/Robin Co., Sheelin began his career producing (and directing 2nd unit) on THE CLOSER. Sheelin’s natural ease with both the actors and camera quickly landed him two directing assignments on THE CLOSER.

 

ADVICE, Interview, People1 Comment

Q&A With TV Veteran Donald Todd

|Donald.Todd|

I read somewhere that wisdom = knowledge applied, so who better than the honorable Donald Todd to talk about the craft of writing? 

Several years ago when I was working as a development executive, Donald and I worked together on a Warner Bros. project that was set up at CBS and the experience was so wonderful I’ve been stalking him ever since.  He’s my go-to person when I need advice or insights into whatever frustrating process I’m in the midst of; I love his honesty, his wit and dry sense of humor, and his no-holds barred look at our industry.  Moreover, he’s damn good at what he does.

He shares many gems including his writing pet peeves, what a perfect pitch should include and how to know when a script is really done.

RS:  In regards to your creative process, where do you draw inspiration from?  How and where do the ideas show up?

DT:  Since inspiration is unreliable, I’ve come to depend more on intention:  what do I need to accomplish here, with the effort?  Is there an actress who’s looking for a comedy?  A streaming service that wants a new fun procedural?  Did I just read a book in which a minor character was the uneducated bodyguard for a high-end call girl, and wonder if there’s a relationship there worth exploring?  Point is, I give myself an assignment, and the specificity of that one thing allows the many random connections and memories and old notions and themes that are swimming in my subconscious to attach to it.  I believe the subconscious contains amazing ideas and revelations — the joy and surprise of discovery is the whole reason I write — but trying to reach in and grab them doesn’t work.

Like catching a fish by hand.  I usually have to give my brain a job… then pretend to go home for the day.  Then the ideas can sneak in on the periphery and delight me.  It’s taken me a long time to give myself permission to let the good ideas come, and to not beat myself up when they don’t.  And by a long time, I mean I haven’t yet, but I hope I get there some day.  

But because this is a job for me, I can’t wait for ideas like a wildlife photographer camped out, hoping a lion wanders by.  So I write stuff down.  Anything.  The first thought, the most useless one, a scene idea, a character notion… it just tells the good stuff that it’s okay to come out now.  And I do it BY HAND — I’m a huge advocate for the connection between the hand and the brain.  I don’t use the computer until I’m actually writing.  It’s not for thinking, or creating, it’s for suddenly remembering that instead of writing I need to buy something.

The first thought, the most useless one, a scene idea, a character notion… it just tells the good stuff that it’s okay to come out now.

And sure, you’re saying, this is just what an old guy does, he doesn’t get that the rest of us think on our devices.  Okay.  And I’m saying no you don’t. 

RS: Has your process changed over the years?  If so, how? 

DT:  I bought a cork board.  I used to do it on the floor of my office.  Having dogs changed that.  Otherwise, occasionally I will use an app for index cards, and there are some better ones available now that we’ve been forced to work away from writer’s rooms… but they just don’t show enough at one time.  I want to see the WHOLE STORY, with different colors of cards for characters’ stories, and how it all feels together.  Once it’s digital, it just feels — and I know this is counterintuitive — set.  Digital is still my last step. 

RS:  Do you have any pet peeves when it comes to formatting?  

DT:  How much time do you have to argue about double-spacing after a period?  I’ve given up fighting it, but not given in:  I double-space because that’s how the Bible was written.  Or something.  I can’t remember.  But there’s no reason to stop.  Besides that, I just tell people, find a script and make yours look like that.  It’s not hard.  In single-camera scripts, the parentheticals do NOT go in the body of the dialogue!  That is lazy and makes you look like you didn’t make any effort to learn.  I don’t want to be your teacher, this is a profession, so look professional.  And here’s one that baffles me, but I see it a LOT:  don’t just end your script or act without putting END OF ACT or END OF EPISODE or whatever.  All the time, I read scripts where the scene just stops.  Is there another page missing?  I don’t know. 

RS:  What’s a mistake writers make when it comes to action lines?  What should you not include?  Is there a tip you can give in order to make them succinct?  

DT:  The answer to this one depends on what the script is for.  If it’s a spec, then it’s a sales document, and you have to consider the reader.  What is the tone you want them to get from your action lines?  I was raised to use as few descriptions as possible, but executives are less able to imagine, so you need to really set the scene.  Use exactly that many lines, not more.  If you’re trying to show how smart YOU are, cut it out.  Show how smart the characters are.  Shane Black is a helluva writer, but he introduced that smart ass, “we both know you’re reading a script” glibness that infected every spec afterward.  As if that’s what got him the million bucks, not the story.  So keep it simple, but do not assume the reader will do any work. 

RS:  Character Descriptions:  I worked with a writer that heard mixed advice when it came to dropping ethnicity into the description.  What’s your take? 

DT:  Only if it is key to the story or the life of the character.  Not just to describe them.  If the scene is about being of one ethnicity or another, or it would be different if they were different, then you need to put it in.  But don’t cast your script.  You limit the possibilities, and you want to allow all the reasons to say yes that you can.

RS:  Once you’re sold on what your next project is, how do you proceed?  Index cards, white board?  How do you organize your initial scribblings?

DT:  Back to that notebook, and a pen.  Could be a pencil for some; I use a fine-tip blue pen.  Always have.  It’s also the reason I use the same coffee cup every day — the sameness signals a mental readiness to write.  An association.  After letting myself write down every single thing I can think of about the idea, in no order, I begin to prepare a pitch (this answer supposes that I have to pitch this to sell it; for what I’d do if I was just going to write it, skip forward a bit).  That’s the hardest thing in the world, and I mean of any job anywhere, including crab fishing.  It’s like that final paper you had to do your senior year, except your livelihood rests on it.  This stage is organized by: how can I explain this idea so someone buys it?  It’s a sales tool, very simply, and designed to get you to what you want to do.  

If the question is, how do I begin once I begin, that takes me to the notebook again, but now we add INDEX CARDS.  In my scribblings about every single thing I can think of about the show, are scenes and lines and thematic ideas and random bits, and everything goes on a card.  Scenes go on white cards.  Ideas that might be IN scenes go on another color card.  Me, I use a cork board.  With push pins.  If I’m in a writer’s room and there’s money for a magnetic white board with magnetic cards, awesome.  But at home, it’s index cards and a board.  I need the visual feedback of seeing the story in front of me, in space.  Structure forms from there — asking what do I KNOW I want, where do I KNOW I want it… then I fill in. 

RS:  What’s some advice you wished you had gotten when first starting out?

DT:  Write shorter.  Start later in the scene.  Be less in love with the dialogue and more conscious of the emotional core of each scene.  Also, more practically: the executives or producers are not out to get you, or make the script worse.  Their notes might not be the way to make it better, but their intentions are positive.  So listen to find the intention, and if it’s unclear, ask.  Then try your best to do the note, if it’s not obviously bad.  There might be — generally is — a better way to get to where you’re going that you wouldn’t have found without trying the note.

RS:  With all of your experience, what’s still difficult to navigate?

DT:  What’s still difficult, and always will be, for any real writer, is to do the work:  to craft a story, to outline it, to give the characters genuine human motivations, to do the work.  It’s just hard.  I guess once I realized that, that made it easier, paradoxically.  I didn’t automatically assume that because I was stuck that I was terrible at this.  I mean, I am, but I don’t assume it anymore. 

What’s still difficult… for any real writer, is to do the work.  It’s just hard.

What’s easier — but only a little — is believing that when I’m stuck, I WILL figure out a solution.  That just comes from having done it enough; it’s based on observation and memory, even though my brain is still completely convinced I’ve written my last word and have been found out as a fraud.  I’m better able now to do what my wife does when I talk, and that’s to say “Mm, hm,” and not listen. 

RS:  What advice can you give for writers first entering a writer’s room?  

DT:  Wait for the showrunner to find a seat, and don’t sit beside them.  Or across from them.  Too much pressure.  Sit near the board, because you’ll probably be asked to write stuff on it because you’re new.  As for when to talk, how much to say… those are tough questions.  Whatever you choose will probably be wrong, at first, because you don’t know what you’re doing. That’s fine — everyone in the room was there at some point, and most are nice and encouraging.  Your job is to listen, and if you have something to contribute, do.  Don’t talk just to show you can, or to say you don’t like an idea.  These things are not helpful, and your job is to be helpful. Before too long, you’ll find the rhythm, you’ll understand better what the showrunner is looking for, you’ll realize your ideas are not worse than anyone else’s, and you’ll talk. 

Also?  Don’t re-pitch an idea that was rejected.  Just don’t.  Even if it might actually save the show.  Not worth it. 

In a writer’s room your job is to listen, and if you have something to contribute, do.

RS:  What does the perfect pitch include? What should it not include? 

DT:  Pass.  Okay, I’ll try, but I really have no idea.  I’m good at pitching, but they’re all different.  I’m writing one now (did I mention it’s my least favorite part of the job, by far?) where the producing partners want the pilot story and the first season’s major turns and surprises, plus the characters’ arcs, and it’s exhausting.  But to answer your question, the perfect pitch is one that paints a picture for the buyer of just what your show is.  They have NO IDEA what’s in your head, so make them see it.  Why do you want to write this?  Or need to?  That matters a lot.  Why now, that an audience can hook into?  What else is it like, so I understand the language we’re speaking here?  What is the key character dynamic?  What is the tone?  What will they care about?  That’s the big one: make the buyer feel the emotion.  A perfect pitch makes the buyer say of course we need this, I’m surprised we don’t already have it.  

RS:  How many drafts do you go through before the studio or network sees your official “first draft”? 

DT:  That depends on my producing partners, which I usually have — a pod or company of some kind.  I’ll do a couple of drafts before they see it, and usually several more — three, sometimes — based on their thoughts, before the studio does.  If I’ve chosen my partners well, by the time the studio gets it, the studio notes are minimal.  By the way, since I write on notepad first, the first draft I type on computer is already a second draft.  So I’ll be on the third, really before I deliver anything.

RS:  If you’re writing a script on spec and no one is waiting for it or you don’t have a studio or network involved, how do you know when it’s fully baked to your satisfaction?

DT:  It’s been awhile.  But I can say that I know when it’s done when I can say this was the intention.  It can take any number of attempts to find an expression of your intention.  You might change your intention in the looking for it.  So it’s done when you can support it and defend it and not apologize for it or make excuses or belittle it at all.  When you can say, ‘This is it, this is what I want you to read.”  The only spec drama script I wrote (which is the first thing of mine YOU read, “The Night”) took two weeks from idea to first draft, and the polished first draft is what I sent out. 

Your script is done when you can support it and defend it and not apologize for it or make excuses.

It just came out that way, and I was happy.  Well, as happy as I get, anyway.

RS:  Do you have an opinion on LookBooks? Have you ever created one for a pitch? Or a finished spec script?  

DT:  I hate them.  We’re just training the execs to be less and less able to listen and imagine.  And I hate extra work.  I will, however, bring in some photos to illustrate the setting or tone of the show.  A specific location, say, if it’s unique and key to the show, or a still of a scene from a movie this is like, so we can all say, “Oh, okay, I get that.”  If that’s a LookBook, then fine. 

RS:  And lastly, what’s a show on the air that you wish you created?  

DT:  Jeopardy.  So much money.  Other than that… Patriot, on Amazon.  Not “on the air,” but I guess everything lives forever.  Still being made now?  Succession.  

And there you have it… wise, wise words from the damn talented, Donald Todd.

For more like this one, try: https://rebecca-stay.com/writer-director-betsy-not-betty-thomas

Bio: 

Donald Todd created the Christina Applegate-starring ABC comedy series Samantha Who?, which won an Emmy and a People’s Choice Award.  He also has worked on NBC’s This is Us, ABC’s Ugly Betty and Fox’s Sleepy Hollow.  Deadline

 

 

ADVICE, Interview, People

Eric Kim: TV Current Executive Extraordinaire

|Eric.Kim|

Eric Kim. We go way, way back. I met him when I joined UPN (currently known as The CW network) as VP of Drama Development. He was in current programming and one of the nicest, loveliest humans ever. He was incredibly welcoming and my type of executive: empathetic, passionate, and gregarious.

Today he is Head of Current Programming at CBS. For me, a great current executive’s main job is to be support for the showrunner(s). I think open lines of communication are absolutely key. That and to be able to have those honest, respectful conversations that aren’t always easy to have. It’s definitely a skill set that is honed over time. (One I’m still working on.) You also help put out fires — hopefully before they turn into full on wildfires.

Historically, current execs were (at times) looked upon as the enemy. Years ago, a friend of mine told me that she was assigned to a show where the showrunner was known to be difficult. Sure enough, he fought her at every turn and eventually broke her down. He actually made her cry on a notes call. CRY. Luckily, he was rightfully reprimanded by the head of the department and he never did it again. In fact, they became friends and she ultimately won him over.

I don’t think it’s that way anymore. But I do get it. Emotions run high, there’s a lot at stake (for ALL) and for creators, they put their blood, sweat and tears into their creations. Heart and soul.  And… trust is something to be earned with any relationship and in all industries. Showrunners want to know the execs have their best interests at heart. And they do. They really, really do. It takes a whole community of people to make a show. Millions of dollars that are not yours, are being pumped into a series. Everyone is invested and everyone wants to see it succeed.

Eric Kim is one of those unsung heroes.

RS:  Where did you grow up?

EK:  I was born in Michigan, but when I was 5 years old my parents (both college professors) were offered an opportunity to return to Korea to teach. My older sisters and my mom were VERY reluctant to move, so my father struck a deal with them (I was 5, no one gave a crap what I was feeling); if it wasn’t working out after one year, we would return to the US. My sisters and I ended up staying all the way until we graduated high school.  We only had one English speaking channel when we were growing up (the American Forces Network) so I had no idea which shows we got to watch were on what broadcast networks.

RS:  How did you break into the industry? 

EK:  My first real break in entertainment was as an intern/PA on the movie “Philadelphia”.  I was a senior at Penn, and one of my sister’s best friends was the assistant to Jonathan Demme’s producing partner, so she called me up and asked if I wanted to be a PA for her. I had no idea what a PA was, but I had a very light credit load my last year in college, so I shrugged and said “sure”.

Now, I loved movies, but I never contemplated working in entertainment until that job. Everyone I came across was so nice, dynamic, and smart, and I thought it was just so cool that we were all here to make a movie (if you look very closely in one of the library scenes, you will see me playing a very annoyed student in the background). The movie wrapped and I quickly found myself unemployed after graduation, so I hit up my sister’s friend and got lucky when they hired me as an assistant in Jonathan’s production company in New York.

My first break in TV came after I moved from New York to LA. I was working as a temp at UPN for one day and heard that the head of comedy development, Kelly Edwards, was looking for an assistant, so the HR manager hooked me up with an interview. The assistant at the time was about to get married and had mentally checked out, so I think Kelly was just happy to find someone who was eager to answer some phones and not mess up her calendar.

RS:  Once in, did you ever have aspirations to get into a development job or another aspect of the business or did you always gravitate toward being a current executive? 

EK:  Early on, not so much because I was still learning the ropes and the basics of just how television gets made as a Current Executive. I think over the years there have definitely been times when I have looked over the fence and contemplated pursuing something more purely development focused, or something that combined both, i.e. developing projects and then seeing them through Current if they got picked up to series.

I think many of us who have been doing Current for a while feel like we do possess the skill set to be able to identify new ideas and projects, know what it takes for a show to maintain and find success, and really understand how to work with writers.

RS:  How would you define being a Current Executive for those out there not truly understanding the job? 

EK:  The analogy I often use is that while development builds the train, our job is to keep that train running smoothly on the tracks, on time, on budget, and creatively and financially successful for as long as we can. Specifically, it means we are reading and watching all the material that comes in, giving notes, and generally overseeing all the various needs of a show.

Our job is to keep that train running smoothly on the tracks, on time, on budget, and creatively and financially successful for as long as we can.

Not to mix analogies here, but the other way to look at it is if a show is a wheel, the Current department is the center hub where all the spokes of the different departments run through – casting, business affairs, scheduling, publicity, finance, marketing, research, etc…  We’re the first point of contact for anyone who needs something from the show or producers, and vice versa, we are the point person for the Producers with regards to anything they require from the Studio or Network.

RS:  What do you enjoy most about your job? 

EK:  Just working with really nice, smart, creative people. Reading a great script or watching a great cut. Finding new talented writers and directors, and also seeing some of them go on to great success. Being able to have a small hand in helping a show get made, produced, and aired.

RS:  What’s the most important aspect of your job? The hardest part? 

EK:  I think one of the most important aspects of this job is the relationship you have with your showrunners, and building a sense of trust and responsibility with them.  These are the folks you will be in communication with the most over the life of a series so it’s critical.  The hardest part is probably giving notes! It definitely gets a little easier over time and with experience, but a difficult notes call can still unnerve the best of us!

RS:  How has your note giving skills evolved through the years? Do you pick and choose your battles? 

EK:  Maybe because I’m older I’ve learned to relax a little more. I try to make my notes with Producers as much of a conversation and dialogue as possible. Not saying I’m always successful in this regard, but I strive for that.

I look at covering a show and working with Producers as a long term relationship that will hopefully carry on for not only many, many episodes over a season, but for many more years to come (knock on wood).

And you absolutely must pick and choose your battles — see my previous answer about building a good relationship with your showrunners! Not every note is worth dying on the hill for. I look at covering a show and working with Producers as a long term relationship that will hopefully carry on for not only many, many episodes over a season, but for many more years to come (knock on wood). So you can’t always come out guns blazing on every single piece of material. At the end of the day, even if we disagree on something, that’s totally fine, its part of the creative process, and you ultimately have to trust and let the writers do what they know best.

RS:  What do you wish someone would have taught you early on about how to navigate this job? 

EK:  Seek out mentors and guidance from those who might have more experience. Don’t be afraid to voice your opinion. Not every note is worth giving.

RS:  In general meetings with writers, what do you look for? 

EK:  I like to learn who they are as people, where they’re from, how or why they became writers. What makes them tick, what do they like to watch or read. What do they not like.  Have some fun or great stories to share in telling me these things, bring some energy. In a nutshell, have a point of view. Remember we are often taking several general meetings, so you want to leave a lasting impression.

RS:  So… you’re staffing for one of your shows. You read someone you love and set a meeting to get to know them. What are some do’s and don’ts a writer should consider before walking into the room to sit down with you? 

EK:  

— DO know what show you are meeting on (yes, I have had writers tell me they have no idea why they are meeting me).

— DO try to have seen as many episodes of the show you’re being considered for. No one expects you to have watched the last 11 seasons of Blue Bloods, but it would be nice if you’ve taken the time to watch some of the more recent ones. Almost everything can be found online.

— DO have an opinion of the show. It’s okay to be constructively critical. We know what the problems are on a show, or what’s not working and we’re probably the harshest critics of our own shows. Often you might be meeting because we’re trying to find writers to remedy those issues so its good to have opinions.

— DO ask questions. Again, if it’s a long running show and you haven’t seen everything, its okay to ask some specific questions.

— DON’T gossip too much about other writers or shows that you’ve worked on. Little fun anecdotes can be fun, but you never know who we might know or work with.

— DON’T pitch a lot of story or episode ideas you have. That’s something to save for if/when you get an opportunity to meet with the showrunner(s). This is different than having an opinion on the show.

RS:  What level of writer are the Showrunners free to bring onto their show without a network signing off? Any? 

EK:  Well, technically, the network has to sign off on all levels, but in my experience, usually the lower level writers (staff writer or even story editor) who the showrunner(s) have identified don’t get the same level of scrutiny, and we usually trust their choices.  I can’t recall an instance in which a staff writer who a showrunner wanted was not approved.  That being said, I still like to read their sample and meet them since they’re part of the writing staff.

RS:  When reading scripts, do you have any pet peeves re: formatting? 

EK:  I do prefer the standard formatting, but as long as you aren’t wildly diverting from it, I’m okay. But like who is doing that??? What I do find to be a pet peeve are typos and grammatical errors. It happens, I know, but it really shouldn’t…c’mon people! Take the extra time to proofread.

RS:  What are your thoughts on describing a character by ethnicity? Do you think it should be completely left out? What’s an instance when you feel it should be written in?    

EK:  Great question! Honestly, generally speaking I feel like that is the writer’s prerogative depending on what their vision is. If they had an ethnicity in mind while writing it, I’m all for the specificity of the vision they have for the character, the story they are trying to tell, and in the best case, it actually feels additive and organic and adds an interesting layer to the character.

Where I do find things to be problematic is when the ethnicity of the character is specified but then is written in a stereotypical fashion. Sometimes egregiously, but sometimes in small unconsciously biased ways.

On the flip side, if they didn’t specify an ethnicity, I don’t necessarily find that to be problematic because ideally it is leaving wide open the possibility of what kind of casting choices can be made. Who ends up being cast, of course, is another debate and story. Where I do find things to be problematic is when the ethnicity of the character is specified but then is written in a stereotypical fashion. Sometimes egregiously, but sometimes in small unconsciously biased ways.

RS:  I’m stealing a question from the conversation game, “VERTELL?S”: What was the best compliment you’ve ever received?

EK:  I think the best compliment I got was when I heard producers request that I cover their shows.

RS:  What’s been a TV show you wished you had worked on (outside of the obvious CBS show)?

EK:  Haha! Aw, I miss our show RS!

Man, that’s a tough question because there have been so many great shows here at CBS and elsewhere. My mind keeps going to more of a time period in the industry and less about specific shows; a time when there were huge water cooler shows that you couldn’t miss that had massive juggernaut ratings, and how cool and fun it must have been to work on shows during that time — stuff like CSI when it launched, Lost, The West Wing, The Sopranos, etc.., or any of the huge comedy hits like Cheers, Friends, Raymond, etc… You had the whole country, if not the whole world, talking about shows the next day!

Don’t get me wrong, I love the massive amount of choices now in broadcast, streaming, and cable, and really interesting, smart, creative shows would never have been made in the old system. But it’s always really fun when a massive hit comes along that EVERYONE is watching and talking about.

RS:  And finally, your favorite thing to do that helps jumpstart your creative juices?  

EK:  I think playing with my kids or seeing what they’re into. It can be refreshing and eye-opening, but it often just reminds me of how old I am!

And there you have it.  A lovely walk down the Current Executive lane. Thx E!

If you liked this post, you may like: https://rebecca-stay.com/steve-tao-riding-the-current

Bio:

Eric Kim is currently Senior Vice President of Current Programs at CBS Television. In that capacity, he has overseen all phases of production on both comedy and drama series such as Clarice, B Positive, Blue Bloods, FBI Most Wanted, FBI International, and upcoming new comedy Smallwood. Prior to CBS, Eric worked in live action series for Nickelodeon and Teen Nick. Eric was Vice President of Programming at the CW and part of the creative team that launched the new network. After graduating from the University of Pennsylvania with a Bachelor of Arts degree in English Literature, Eric got his start in the entertainment industry working for director Jonathan Demme in New York. Kim currently sits on the board of Colour Entertainment, a non-profit organization of diverse executives in the media landscape; he is also a Board Member of non-profit Korean American Leaders in Hollywood (KALH).

ADVICE, Interview, People1 Comment

Alphonso McAuley: Stand Up, Writer, Director, Producer

|Alphonso.McAuley|

I first met Alphonso while he was starring as the recurring role of “Hutch” on the critically acclaimed and adored ABC show, The Middle.

Me and Fonz (as I like to call him) worked on one of my favorite TV projects called The DMV.  He was a pure joy to work with… he’s one of the most positive human beings on the planet.  I think we connected and worked well together because he was the  “Peteranna” to my “Pollyanna” as far as outlooks on life goes.  In development the odds are always stacked against you.  The bad news is that we were unsuccessful in selling the pitch, but the good news is that I gained a friendship in the process.

RS:  You are a stand-up, actor, writer, director, producer… what aspect of your craft do you enjoy most?  

AM:  Being a student of the craft. I’ve been more focused on honing my storytelling skills to tell better, more engaging, stories while having fun along the way. To be a great stand-up, writer, director, producer, and actor, one has to be great at telling stories or the audience is going to check out early.

RS:  When did you know you were great at telling stories?  Or rather, when did you get a sign that people responded to your stories?

AM: I started honing my storytelling skills in high school. I remember telling a story to some of my friends — about a crazy fight that broke out in between classes that I saw. It got to the point where my friends would continue to ask me to retell that particular fight story over and over because I’d make it almost more entertaining than being at the actual fight. I’d naturally add jokes, sound effects, and colors to the story. That’s when I knew I had a knack for storytelling.

RS:  What’s harder… writing as a stand-up or writing for the screen? 

AM:  I think they both hold their own weight in difficulty, if we are talking strictly comedy.  Stand up is hard because you have to constantly work a joke/bit out on stage. The audience’s laughs become your edit points. Once the bit is completely worked out, you reap the reward of instant laughter. No waiting involved. Screen, on the other hand, is an entire process of rewrites and tweaks that one doesn’t know if the joke/bit will land until it’s actually screened and reviewed by an audience. One advantage of the screen is that you have more variables to help the success of a joke/bit/story such as music, cut aways, etc.

RS:  How does your writing process begin? 

AM: Currently my process begins by observing my experiences. Past and present.

I try to reassess my experiences and pull from those to build an engaging story.

Basically, I pay attention to the experiences that I go through or what I’ve been through and expound on that. Whether it’s some type of recreational experience that I’ve never done before. Or a dating experience that I’m able to pull comedy out of or something traumatic that I’m able to build some type of drama from. I try to reassess my experiences and pull from those to build an engaging story. Then I take a snippet from one of those experiences, add some creative water and make a meal out of it.

RS:  What’s been the most difficult part of writing for you? 

AM:  The traditional structural part.  Sometimes this becomes difficult for me to fit into that mold, but I know it must be done properly to tell an effective story.

RS:  Runners call it “hitting the wall” when they find they can’t go any further, but then the endorphins kick in and they move through it. When you hit a wall as a writer, how do you break through? 

AM:  For me, I find something to do from my childhood.  A quick video game break or maybe watch a cartoon/classic comedy to make sure I’m in a playful mood.

RS:  Who are some of your influences? 

AM:  Eddie Murphy, Jim Carrey, Martin Lawrence, Patrice O’neal, The Coen Bros., Roger Deakins… to name a few.

RS:  We’re in the midst of an exciting and challenging time in our industry when it comes to opening the doors to more diversity.  Are there aspects of this movement that you feel have not been addressed?

AM:  One aspect that hasn’t been addressed on a wide scale is having more diversity in the Hair department. There are a lot of moving parts to this, but plain and simple, black performers need more black or (people of color) hairdressers/barbers while on set.

Plain and simple, black performers need more black or (people of color) hairdressers/barbers while on set.

RS:  How have these shifts affected you as far as more roles and/or opportunities opening up to you? 

AM:  The industry shifts haven’t really affected me much. I still go out for the same roles that I’m right for and the roles where they are willing to change the role’s ethnicity.

RS:  When you go to auditions and get sides to read, what do great sides include about the character that’s helpful to you?

AM:  The motivation/reasoning to why this character acts the way he does.

RS:  What’s a role you’ve always wanted to play? 

AM:  Fela Kuti in a biopic. Fela is such an underrated icon. His music focused mainly on the political liberation of Nigeria which opened my perspective up to some of the corrupt politics around the globe.

RS:  What’s a series or film you wished you had created or written? And why… how did it speak to you? 

AM: Breaking Bad. I’ve always liked the villain’s story more than the hero because it seems that the villain’s story has many layers. Breaking Bad is simply that — the making of a villain told in an engaging plot twisting story and it’s layered with so many moving parts that keeps the audience engaged.

RS:  As a writer, what’s the best advice you’ve received?  

AM:  Just write it.

RS:  What’s the worst? 

AM:  Just write it.

RS:  How has your own journey in life defined you as a creative person? 

AM:  My journey has given me the vast perspective of many cultures that I grew up around which has heightened my creativity in so many different ways.

RS:  What are those cultures and in what way have they heightened your creativity?

AM:  The Latin, Asian, and Filipino cultures as well as the suburb and inner city cultures. I grew up around a lot of different ethnicities because my family constantly moved around when I was a child.

Making many friends in different cultures, it’s helped me to broaden my perspective and views which is great for writing.

With those experiences and making many friends in different cultures, it’s helped me to broaden my perspective and views which is great for writing. So if I’m writing a story that involves a latin character or someone who lives in the inner city, I have true life experiences to pull from that can specify the attributes of that particular character. I’m not limited to stories/jokes suited for one culture, but more universal.

RS:  Proudest moment so far in your career? 

AM:  Telling my grandfather that one day I’m going to star in a movie. Then years later… inviting him to my first movie premiere.

RS:  What is your animal spirit and why? How does it reflect who you are?  

AM: Hmmm… If I had to pick, maybe a dolphin because they’re playful, but wise. They’re skillful communicators and unifiers. I feel like I’m a mix of those attributes in some way.

RS: Lastly, what’s a talent you have that would surprise people? 

AM: Not sure if this is a talent, but I can tell the exact type of (US) coin that is dropped on the ground by hearing it without looking. Weird, I know.

And there you have it.  The always engaging Alphonso McAuley.

Bio: 

Actor/Comedian Alphonso McAuley has starred in multiple television and film projects including Fat Albert, Glory Road, Netflix’s GirlBoss, and ABC’s The Middle.  He is currently co-starring in the independent film “Broken Diamonds (2021) and will soon appear in the superhero drama “The HYPERIONS” (2022).   When Alphonso is not busy ruling the world, you can find him here: @mcphonz