Tag: Screenwriting

ADVICE, Interview, People

Showrunner & Writer: Lizzy Weiss

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June 6, 2011.

It is 12 years ago today when the long running, Peabody award-winning Freeform series, Switched at Birth premiered. I wish I could say I had planned to post this q&a exactly on this prestigious day. Alas, I am not that clever. But boy, who doesn’t love some good old-fashioned serendipity at play?

Lizzy Weiss is the extraordinary creator and showrunner behind Switched. She’s one of my favorite writers around, but I have to confess… I’m slightly biased.

We met years ago working on a passion project called Life and Deaf. It was based on a true story brought to us (FourBoys Ent. — the pod I was working with at the time) by Marlee Matlin and Jack Jason, Marlee’s interpreter and producing partner. It was actually based on Jack’s wonderful life story — one of which you could visualize immediately as a series. It had everything I love in a show. Humor, emotion, texture — along with unique & surprising characters that populated the world. Unfortunately, it didn’t get past the finish line, but it was a joy to work on. And if that wasn’t enough…

And what a powerful female team at the forefront: Patricia Heaton. Marlee Matlin. And Lizzy… A writer with integrity, strength, and vision.

RS: Describe yourself in a logline. 

LW: Hmm. I’ll just spew a bunch of the first words that come to mind. Feminist, writer, mom, small, strong, fast talker, fast walker, Jewish, married, well-parented, A.D.D., lucky. 

RS: As a writer, what has become like second nature and what do you still struggle with? 

LW: I love a good writers’ room; there is truly nothing better. On the flip side, there’s nothing worse than being stuck with someone toxic or entitled or rude. I’ve run three rooms that I adore, which I define by saying I never once came home from those rooms without having laughed hard – usually at some insane pitch that we are pretty sure we can make work.

The strike is dealing with very real issues of compensation and respect – and I am 100% for creators being given our fair share as everything starts on the page – EVERYTHING. That all being said, what is also true is that I think I have the best job in the world. To sit around with a bunch of creative folks shaping stories? THE BEST.

RS: How did Switched at Birth come to you? 

LW: I heard a podcast about two women who discovered that they were switched at birth and how that turned their lives upside down even though they were in their 50s. At the time, I was five months pregnant with my second kid – so babies in hospitals were very much on my mind – and it just grabbed me. “What if someone told me right now that my 18-month-old son in the next room wasn’t actually mine and someone could take him away? Wait, but that would mean that my biological son was out there somewhere being raised by someone else?”

Then I thought, “How would I feel if I were fifteen and already questioning everything?” I was doing yoga listening to the podcast – and it was so pressing, so “lightning bolt” that I stopped my practice, got out my laptop, and started to type.

RS: The deaf angle added such depth and texture to the story. Was that always baked into the character? Did someone pitch that to you?

LW: The deaf addition to Daphne’s character came after I sold the pilot. Brooke Bowman (the executive at ABC Family) suggested it might be interesting if the girl who was raised by the working-class single parent had some kind of difference that made the wealthier parents feel like if they had raised their own daughter, she might have turned out differently. I had taken a class in college called “Theater of the Deaf” in which we had to perform monologues and poems in sign language, so instantly I responded, “What if she is deaf?” And we were off and running.

RS: Describe your most memorable meeting – either with a studio exec, network exec, or talent. What made it memorable? 

LW: Well, the truth is that I’ve had some rough ones – oof – but I think I’ll skip those because they involve famous folks and I’m not an idiot. 🙂 On the positive side, I guess I’d say my pitch to Brooke at ABC Family for Switched in 2009.

I was eight months pregnant, I remember the exact black wrap dress I was wearing, it was just me and her — no studio, no producing pod, no stars, no other execs on her end — and a poster board that cost me eight dollars.

I cut out a couple photos – Daphne Zuniga for Regina, Julie Bowen for Kathryn, Selena Gomez for Bay, and I can’t remember who for Daphne – but the whole thing cost me eight dollars at the printing shop. It was the first time I had ever used visuals and it was only because pitching that show is a little confusing with two moms, two daughters, all inter-related in different ways so I needed to point.

I did my whole pitch – about 20-25 minutes – and then I asked if she had any questions and she just smiled and said, “Nope. Thanks so much!” And I was like – uggghhh. Bad sign.

My agent had already told me no other network would hear it (as the leads were young women and it was not based on IP), so I tossed the poster board in the trash on the way out. When she called to ask how it went, I said, “Terrible – she hated it. No questions.” My agent said, “Well, she just bought it.” I was flabbergasted.

So you just never know.

RS: How did that show change you? 

LW: The show changed my life in so many incredible ways, but I’ll talk specifically about one aspect which is that I was opened up to an entire world of disability issues – accessibility, rights, concepts like “deaf gain” (which refers to all of the things you gain from being deaf – like a community, a culture, a language, an identity, plus four heightened senses) – instead of focusing on loss. I found all of that totally fascinating and in turn, see the world totally differently myself. I am friends with lots of deaf people and I feel privileged to be part of that community.

RS: Name your biggest pet peeve both in life and as a writer. 

Lizzy: 

I hate cliches.

LW: I used to tell my Switched writers no jokes about girls being “on the rag” or about women eating ice cream in bed while depressed after a break-up. Another one that people might be surprised at is I had a strict “no hugs” policy on Switched unless someone from set called me to approve it. That meant I did not want people hugging unless it was earned. Don’t throw those moments around! You gotta earn your emotion and then it’s gold.

RS: How do you decompress? 

LW: I do a lot of walking in my neighborhood listening to podcasts and books on tape and music. Biking, but I don’t do it in LA, because y’know, I value my life, but I do so love biking. Finally, playing with our Boxer Dolly, and watching great TV.

RS: What’s the first thing you think of when your eyes open in the morning? 

LW: Coffee. Dog. Kids. Wordle.

RS: In what ways do you continue to redefine yourself as a writer?

LW: I will always primarily be a character-driven family drama writer – and “family” can mean anything, not necessarily parents and kids but all of the kinds of families we create at different phases of our lives. But I have expanded into half-hour dramedies. I love that genre as both a viewer and a creator.

I’ll mention Reservation Dogs, One Mississippi, Catastrophe, Feel Good, This Way Up, Heartstopper, Better Things. Such a great combination of genres and the ones that are done well pretty much always make me cry.

RS: What’s an adjective you would not use to describe yourself? 

LW: Toxic, political, ego-driven. I say those three words because I hear them the most when writers complain about showrunners and one of the things I am most proud of is creating a happy work environment for six years for over a hundred people – leadership that let people know, “We aren’t going to yell here, we aren’t going to belittle people, we aren’t going to panic and stress out and give people hives. “It’s just a TV show, let’s have some fun.”

RS: How do you go about writing? Do you have a set routine? 

LW: I can be hyper-focused in the early morning if there’s total quiet but for the rest of the day, I like a little bit of chaos around me – i.e., busy cafes or a puppy running around me chasing a squeezy ball. As a showrunner, I thrive on a bunch of things happening at once – I can spin plates, in fact, I’d say spinning plates is somewhat energizing for me.

RS: What was your most enjoyable experience in a writer’s room and why? 

LW: I absolutely adored Switched – our room shifted a bit over time but it was always a delight – happiest years of my life. I also ran a mini room a couple years ago for MTV for a sex dramedy called, “Undressed” and I am so proud to say that we put together the most diverse room I have ever seen. We had a trans woman writer, three Black writers (one African), two queer writers, a Muslim writer, and one straight white man – and together, we came up with the greatest stories about sex and sexuality and had so much fun.

And most recently, I ran a room for a family drama about rodeo and I loved that room too – we were all totally respectful of each other (three Canadians, so y’know, that’s built in) – I think we just genuinely liked each other.

RS: On Twitter, you describe yourself as a, “Lover of lockets, toast, and jumpsuits.” Why did you choose those specific adjectives to describe yourself?

LW: Those are things that make me happy. Crisp, buttery, salty toast is the perfect comfort food. Lockets are old-fashioned but timeless and I love carrying photos of my kids as little guys around my neck. Jumpsuits make me happy to be a woman.

RS: You describe yourself as a sign language student. What do you feel you’ve yet to learn? 

LW: I have this strange situation where I know hundreds of words, so I can pretty much express anything I want to say but I have a super hard time understanding other people’s signs quickly enough – I cannot figure out why my brain works in one direction when it comes to ASL but it does.

I love it so much – I just want to give a shout out to sign language – everyone in the world should learn it – not just for accessibility for deaf and HOH folks, but also for (hearing) people to communicate across crowded rooms, at a loud concert, underwater, when you or your parents grow old and lose hearing – it would be incredible! 

RS: When taking on new projects, what are you drawn to? 

Lizzy: 

I tend to be drawn to issues of class and gender and adolescence and parenthood and nature vs. nurture. 

LW: I have to be passionate about it or I can’t sell it. I truly can’t fake it. So I have to find something in it that makes me super excited to dive in and I have to believe I am the only one who can do it right.

RS: Are there certain projects you’ll always say no to? 

LW: People often think of me for YA and there is a whole genre of “rich kid” (Gossip Girl) but I don’t excel in that universe.

RS: What’s something you are good at that might surprise people? 

LW: Oh man, I wish I had a super cool answer for this! But I do not do origami or miniatures or skateboarding. Let’s see, I am extremely flexible? I’ve been stretching since I was 11 and doing yoga since I was 28 and I can still do handstands and cartwheels and such.

RS: Describe your perfect getaway. 

LW: I know this one! A bike trip through any country that I’ve never been to with gorgeous, safe roads, and evenings spent meeting interesting folks from all over the world. When the kids go to college, I have my eye on Croatia, Japan, and South Africa.  

RS: When on set, is there a job that intimidates you?

LW: I wouldn’t say it intimidates me but I’m always so incredibly impressed with both the ADs and the line producers – so many balls to juggle, so many personalities and rules and things to keep in mind – whew, it’s a lot. In addition, I’m impressed by anyone on the crew who takes their job very seriously.

On Switched, we had a prop master named Scott Buckwald who just absolutely loved props and enjoyed every part of the process, and I find that delightful. I also have a ton of respect for TV directors who change worlds week after week and have to lead but also be a collaborator – and the ones who do it effortlessly are a joy.  

RS: If you could give an emerging writer one piece of advice, what would it be? 

Lizzy:

Take Notes Well. 

LW: Recently, a young writer took a set of somewhat big notes extremely well – she was professional, she dived back in without attitude or pushback, she was eager to learn – and I really respect that. On the other hand, I was in a room once where someone got big notes on their outline and they quit.

Same deal with everyone on the crew, actually – one of my favorite things about my costume designer on Switched – Courtney Stern – is that she could take notes with a great attitude, a collaborative spirit, and just joy in the job – and that makes me want to work with those people again and again.

RS: What’s your opinion in regard to LookBooks? Do you think visuals help writers with development? 

LW: I think they can be helpful but aren’t always necessary and I wouldn’t get too bogged down in them. They can be a time suck and execs are smart enough to ignore the fancy deck and focus on the story, characters, and package, so I find all those hours pulling the perfect photo can be a waste.  

RS: What inspires you?

LW: Shows like Heartstopper or Reservation Dogs where they try something different, they commit, and it’s authentic and perfect. Who cares if it is a hit? Not everything can be. What a disaster if that’s all we cared about (that’s pretty much what happened to studio movies). The most moving experiences I have had watching a show or a film have usually been stories that are not massively popular but felt completely honest.

RS: What question do you wish I would have asked? What question are you glad I didn’t? 

Lizzy: 

About Motherhood! I love telling young women that yes, you absolutely can be a showrunner and a mom. 

LW: My show was green lit when my kids were three years old and one year old, and we made it work. Sure, it involves having great partners at home and at work but it is absolutely possible and I am so lucky and grateful that I was able to birth and nurture kids and a show that I hope lives on after me. 

I’m glad you didn’t ask whose career I wish I had or anything like that. I try not to compete with anyone and the longer I do this, the more I believe that working with people you respect on material you enjoy is the #1 priority. Sure, we’d all love to go to the Emmys and be on “fancy” shows but honestly, that often comes at a price I am not sure I am willing to pay. My family wants to have me around – not miserable or tense but proud and content – so running a show that allows that is key. 

And there you have it! The illuminating and light-filled, Lizzy Weiss.

Happy 12th Anniversary, Switched at Birth! The number 12 might not be as sexy as the other well known anniversary years such as the spritely 10th or solid 20th or stealthy 50th or the elusive 100th! That said, there are many lovely things the number 12 represents. 12 signs in the zodiac, a beautiful dozen of your favorite flowers. And hello? Two favorites in my household: The 12-days of Christmas as well as the occasional Saturday morning treat; a dozen delicious donuts that I may or may not partake in.

I’ll leave that to your imagination to figure it out.

For more q&a’s, go to: www.rebecca-stay.com/blog

Bio: 

Lizzy Weiss created and executive produced Switched at Birth, which ran on Freeform for over 100 episodes and won the Peabody. She also wrote the surf girl flick Blue Crush, and ran Sorry For Your Loss on Facebook. Currently, she is running a show on Hallmark, which is awaiting a season two pick-up, so she isn’t technically supposed to mention it but she has faith in it so she is! She lives in Los Angeles with her husband, two kids, and her Boxer, Dolly. 

 

ADVICE, Interview, People

Mission: Impossible: Cracking Down on Erik Jendresen’s Fundamentals of Writing

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Erik is probably best known for his extraordinary stewardship on HBO’s critically acclaimed and award-winning miniseries, Band of Brothers, but most recently he was brought on board to help co-write the much anticipated Mission: Impossible 7 & 8 films.  How exhilarating to get that call?  You have a mission if you choose to except… and no spoiler alert here.  He accepted.

There are not many people in this life that I’m charmed by, especially when I’m called “Fucking Rebecca!” right out of the gate.  I received this strange little nickname from Erik a lifetime ago while I was head of TV development for Ventanarosa, Salma Hayek’s company.  She and her producing partner, Jose (Pepe) Tamez  had an overall deal at ABC and we worked together on a TV project called WICKED, based on the book by Gregory Maguire — mostly known for the wildly successful stage production of the same name.  I quickly realized F.R. was a term of endearment and well, it’s been my favorite ever since.

Erik is one of those writers that you rarely question.  He has an unwavering confidence and authority when you’re speaking to him about things he has a passion for.  His intuitive discernment and humor have served him well and I could not be more thrilled to share his thoughts on writing, his creative road and incredible knowledge on the fundamentals of writing.

RS: Using a logline, tell me who Erik Jendresen is…

EJ: A youth determined to be a marine biologist finds inspiration in a high school English class and chooses to follow his heart, instead of his head because it is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye, and the only thing better than lives well-and-boldly-lived, are the stories that we tell about them.

RS: What screenplay did you read where you thought, “I need to write in this form”?

EJ: I never read a screenplay before I wrote one.  Screenplays are frequently painful to read – and through no fault of the screenwriter.  A screenplay is the most clumsy of literary forms, because the screenwriter is representing something on paper that is intended to be experienced on celluloid – an entirely different medium.

A screenplay is a description of the experience of a story that is meant to be seen and heard and felt – not read.  I’ve spent decades trying to refine the document that is a screenplay into some semblance of a persuasive and honest form.

Watching Casablanca, To Have and Have Not, The Maltese Falcon, Treasure of the Sierra Madre and The Man Who Would Be King, however, made me need to write screenplays.

RS: Do you remember the very first thing you ever wrote?

EJ: Yes.  I wrote it when I was twenty and it’s about to made into a motion picture.  I’m 63.

RS: I’m thrilled that you’re a part of the next two Mission: Impossible films.  I’m sure you’re sworn to secrecy, so I’ll just ask you this: Which character do you most relate to and why?

EJ: The Mission: Impossible franchise presents the most meta experience imaginable for a writer: The writing of a “next” M:I film is, essentially, and by definition, a mission impossible.  How to transcend the previous films?  How to deliver a story that will thrill and move an audience – and satisfy the expectant spectacle in a manner that is honest and serves the characters – while knowing that the stakes are pitched on the summit of Everest – they can’t get any higher. 

As a writer, you must be Ethan Hunt – able to make the instinctive, spur-of-the-moment choices critical to ensuring the safety and satisfaction of the world (the audience). 

The thing that I believe distinguishes this franchise from many other action/thriller franchises is its heart.  We care about the IMF team and we care about their caring for each other – while willing to risk their lives for the greater good. 

As a writer, my mission, and I chose to accept it, was to work with a dear friend (Christopher McQuarrie) to try to tell a story that is terrifyingly relevant, in a manner that will wildly entertain, provoke people to think about the now and the next, and push the limits of performance and cinema itself to a new place.  I hope that we have succeeded.

It’s always and only about serving the characters and their apotheosis.

RS: Do you prefer adapting material or working on a seedling that comes from your core?  Why?

EJ: I love adapting material.  The harder it is properly to serve a story on film, the better.  To take an author’s vision – or a true story – and deliver it in an unforgettable way – with pure purpose and impeccable intent – is a challenge that I truly relish.  Translating another storyteller’s work into another medium is also an enormous responsibility that I gladly and gratefully assume.

RS: I know from experience working with you that you do a ton of research when adapting material.  How do extract the best bits from the research and how do you keep yourself from being swallowed up by it all?  Are there any tricks of the trade you can share that would benefit emerging writers that are about to go down the research rabbit hole?

EJ: In 1897 Mark Twain released Following the Equator: A Journey Around the World and in it lies his assertion that, “Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn’t.”

And that’s the crux of it.  The most gifted writer cannot possibly conceive anything as wondrous and terrible as the truths that humankind has wrought.  Truth is a treasure trove.

And here’s the thing.  Two people go down a rabbit hole: One is an historian, one is a dramatist.  They uncover the same facts, but the historian is constrained by academic strictures, and may only make conservative conclusions regarding what is true and what is conjecture.  The dramatist is unleashed and able to see and to feel and to make connections and inferences based on human behavior and feelings.  I firmly believe that a dramatist is able to recreate history more reliably than an historian, on account of this freedom and grounding in a familiarity with human behavior.

Go face-first down the rabbit hole.  Savor the strange.  And if the truth is inconvenient to your narrative, make that a good thing. Embrace the inconvenience.  It will individuate your story from the conventional and elevate your film from the rest.

RS: What makes a scene great?

EJ: It surprises the audience with emotion.  It causes them to feel.

RS: How do you help writers navigate a scene or get under the character’s intentions and motivations — to help them elevate dialogue?

EJ: This is a sensitive subject, and I’m not sure about it.  I suspect that I believe that one has an ear for dialogue, or one doesn’t.  It’s like having an ear for music (and I don’t).  In any event, dialogue must be specific to character.

Real people are rarely expository, and less is generally more.  Let’s leave it at that.

RS: Who was your best friend growing up and what did you love about their friendship?

EJ: In general, I was my own best friend growing up.  I spent most of my time in the woods with my dog, and on a sailboat.  For three years of elementary school and two of middle school, Fred Dekker (Night of the Creeps, Monster Squad) and I were best pals. 

Then we went to different high schools.  Fred was a year older, a grade above, and one of the most genetically creative people I’ve ever met.  He introduced me to classic horror films (Universal) and Ray Harryhausen (an American-British animator and special effects creator).  His passion for cinema was infectious.  We made 8mm movies in his back yard and in an old rock quarry in the woods and made midnight expeditions to a cemetery a couple of miles from his house.  We’re still in touch.

And I would add that Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson; D’Artagnan, Athos, Aramis and Porthos; and Professor Challenger were best friends. In my teens, Philip Marlowe and I spent a lot of time together.

RS: What are the benefits of working with a star of any project? (Besides the obvious.) 

EJ: It depends on the star.  Among those in my personal planetarium, I’ve been fortunate to work with Hanks, Redford, and Cruise – all on multiple projects.  Those gentlemen share a strength of character and integrity – an idealism and a work ethic – that is hard to match.  Their decades of experience are shared freely and without conceit, and their ability to get films made and protect the creative vision of their projects is extraordinary.  They are true collaborators.

RS: Marathoners hit walls around the 20 mile mark of a race.  As a writer, do you ever experience blocks and if so, how do you get yourself out of them?

EJ: Writer’s block is a crock of shit.  It’s nothing more than the spirit-that-moves-through-all things telling you that you’ve fucked up somewhere – that you might be forcing something on your characters that you want, but they don’t, or that you might be forcing on your story something that the story is rejecting.  That said…

Hemingway wrote that you never walk away from your work when it’s going poorly, because you’ll just be coming back to a problem.  I’ve taken that to heart, and it’s helped me enormously. 

If ever I find myself stuck or stopped in a scene or a sequence, I simply leave it alone and start to work on another scene that I know for certain will be in the film. 

In other words, I might find myself stymied by something in the first act.  Rather than call it a day and leave the problem for tomorrow, I’ll look ahead and commence to write a scene that might be in the second act – or even the third – but is critical to the story. 

I make sure that whenever I end my writing day, I’m on fire.  Sometimes, I’ll intentionally walk away when I’m doing my best work, just to ensure that when I come back to it, it’s already working.

And, frequently… when I revisit that stuck place in the first act… holy smokes!  By virtue of the scene I jumped ahead to, the problem scene is solved.

Never stop writing when you’re stuck.  Always end your writing day with a scene that’s working, no matter where it might come in your story.

RS: I know you live on a boat (or at least live on one part of the time).  What’s soothing about living on the water?  How does it feed your soul?

EJ: The surface of the sea is quite literally the space between two worlds – the world we inhabit and with which we are familiar, and the world that lies beneath.  One can only experience the wonders beneath if one goes there intentionally.  Choosing to live in the space between things is a powerful notion – between the conscious and the unconscious, between waking and dreaming.

When you sail, you move with the wind, with one wing in the air and one wing (the keel) in that other world.  It’s magical.  When you live on a boat you are floating on a metaphor that flows and fluxes with the phases of the moon.  That, and the subtle – barely perceptible – movement of the floor on which you stand (when in harbor) just makes me happy. 

Nothing in nature is truly stable, and I relish not being grounded.

RS: As an advisor at the Sundance Screenwriter’s Lab, what’s the hardest aspect of advising?  What’s the most joyful part of it?

EJ: The final breakfast is hard.  Everything else about the Lab is unabashedly joyful.  The Lab is a singularity.  It’s going to Asgard for five days to commune with the creative principle.

RS: How do you help writers get out of their own way, shake up their process?

EJ: I like to shame them first, then show them everything that’s amazing about the potential that they’ve already created and then denied by trying to force their characters to behave in ways they wouldn’t. 

Less experienced writers (and some real veterans) tend to write toward an end rather than create a promise-filled beginning and let their characters guide the way.

RS: What makes a character great?

EJ: Honesty.  And by that, I mean they behave in a manner that is true to who they are and whence they came.  That’s why villains and heroes both can be great characters.

RS: Do you consider yourself a risk taker?  What is the scariest thing (in your life) that you’ve tackled?

EJ: Definitely.  If there’s no risk, there’s no point.  As for the scariest thing… I’m still looking for it.

RS: Is there a genre you’re dying to immerse yourself in?

EJ: No.  I’ve been fortunate to have submerged myself in all of the genres that invigorate me, and my sock drawer – like the sock drawers of most of my pals – is filled with camera-ready scripts that are unproduced solely on account of studio regime change.

RS: What would you consider your strength as a writer?  What is your Achille’s Heel?

EJ: My greatest strength is that I genuinely love writing itself.  My Achilles Heel is that I genuinely love writing itself.

RS: You began as a playwright.  Was it a hard transition from writing plays to the screen?  What was both easy and difficult for you to master?

EJ: Plays and screenplays are simply completely different media.  They are barely related.  One is kinetic and live and utterly organic and suffers no short-cuts and allows the audience to look wherever they care to and recreates itself with every performance.  The other is kinetic and photographed and consciously manipulated – a guided experience through the lens of a camera placed where the filmmaker chooses – and preserved forever.

That said, playwriting is a crucible for truth-in-character and scene structure and there can be nothing phony about the interaction between characters on stage (unless that’s what the scene is about).  So, playwriting is the ultimate tutorial for scene craft in screenplays.

RS: Worst and Best advice you ever received?

EJ: The worst was when I once advised myself to help a friend who had been an agent and then started a production company and wanted to be a director.  I rewrote a couple of other people’s horror scripts for him, then handed him an original neo-noir of mine.  The first two intentionally direct-to-video films were meh.  The third film – the original one – turned into an unwatchable abomination. 

It turned out he wasn’t trying to make films for the right reason, and our friendship was negotiable.  He was just using me to reinvent himself.

The best was when I advised myself never to let that happen again.

RS: Advice you wish you were given first starting out?

EJ: The bar at Musso & Frank is the best place to enjoy a martini and a steak by yourself.

RS: Are you superstitious when it comes to your writing process?  Is there anything you do or don’t do before you get started?

EJ: I never write the title page until I’ve typed, “The End.”

RS: Are you a sunrise or sunset kind of guy?

EJ: Sunrise.  When you’re fresh from unconsciousness it’s easier not to let the mundane get in the way.

RS: What’s one of the best lessons your daughter has taught you?

EJ: When she was three years-old we were driving down the road and she was staring out the passenger side window and just… murmuring.  I asked her, “What are you doing?” And she snapped her head around and said:

“Don’t interrupt me when I’m talking to myself!”

RS: What’s a phrase you tend to overuse?

EJ: “No. I won’t do a free producer’s pass.”

RS: Is there a conversation we need to be having in our industry that you don’t think we’ve yet approached?

EJ: We’re having it right now.  It’s being shouted from the picket lines.

RS: Do you think it’s harder to get anything sold with an oversaturated market and with so many outlets?  Or is it just different?

EJ: It’s not harder.  Astonishingly original, compelling work always sells.  Whether or not it gets made is a matter for the algorithm of the day and the perverse Darwinism of Hollywood.

RS: If writers (especially emerging writers) are not good at pitching, what advice can you give them?

EJ: Don’t pitch.  There’s nothing that you can do with someone who isn’t good at it.  Attach a non-writing producer to the project who can deliver the vim and vigor and passion that every pitch needs.

RS: How do you reset when feeling overwhelmed?

EJ: Why would you want to? 

Overwhelm is rocket fuel.

RS: Best gift you ever received?

EJ: When I was six years old, my father – who was a scientist – told me that whatever I ended up doing with my life, I should wake up every morning and feel as though I was getting away with something – that going to work meant that there was no place I’d rather be.

RS: Describe your most rewarding writing experience and what made it so?

EJ: I can’t.  I can’t rank them.  Every one of them has a special place in my heart.

That said, Band of Brothers stands apart on account of the fact that it aired just in time for many gentlemen of the Greatest Generation to use it as a frame of reference to be able to tell their families – for the first and only time – what they did in World War Two.  For that, I am eternally grateful.

RS: What was the last film or TV series you watched that you would recommend to emerging writers – as an example of great writing?

EJ: I’m just now getting around to Barry, which I think is wonderful. Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul are impeccable.  I think Slow Horses is a real contender.  And it’s hard to beat The Dick Van Dyke Show and Fawlty Towers.

RS: If you could only bring one book, one piece of music, one movie or TV show to a deserted island, what would they be?

EJ: Moby Dick, “Samba de Orfeu” by Luiz Bonfa, Planet Earth.

RS: What question do you wish I would have asked:

EJ: “Two spaces, or one, after a period?”

(Answer: Two.)

RS: What is one you’re glad I didn’t?

EJ: “Who are you wearing?”

There you have it.  Gems from the Extraordinary Erik J.

For more Q&A’s:  https://rebecca-stay.com/blog

Bio: 

As co-creator, lead writer, and supervising producer of Band of Brothers for HBO in 2001, Erik Jendresen was one of the recipients of that year’s Golden Globe and Emmy Award for Outstanding Miniseries.  As a writer, producer, and showrunner for television, his current and favorite former projects include a Dashiell Hammett series for WBTV; a series based on the Francis Ford Coppola film, The Conversation; The Pony Express (with Robert Duvall); The 43, a limited series about WWII British ex-servicemen fighting fascism on their home soil; A Slave in the White House, a limited series about James Madison’s relationship with Paul Jennings; Castner’s Cutthroats, a limited series about the Battle of the Aleutians; No Man’s Land, a limited series about the war to end all war; Shot All to Hell, a limited series about the James-Younger Gang; Wicked, a limited series adaptation of the novel by Gregory Maguire; and Killing Lincoln for the National Geographic Channel.

As a writer/producer for film, his current projects include Mission: Impossible 7 & 8 (with Christopher McQuarrie); Sicario 3; Broadsword (the story of an S.O.E. operation in WWII); The Mariner (directed by Christopher McQuarrie); Saint-Ex (the story of Antoine de Saint-Exupéry); Aloft (based on the book, On the Wing by Alan Tennant), La Légion – a film about the French Foreign Legion in 1954; The Windsor Knot, a mystery thriller about the son of Sherlock Holmes; and The Tracker (based on the book by Tom Brown, Jr.).

He lives on a 118-year-old Dutch former-naval vessel (a veteran of Dunkirk) in Sausalito, California and on the Catawba River, North Carolina with his wife, psychotherapist Venus Bobis.

He is an advisor for the Sundance Screenwriters Lab.

 

 

ADVICE, Interview, People

A Conversation with Writer, Sam Meikle

|Sam.Meikle|

Sam Meikle.  There are so many things I respect about this man.  Yes, he’s amiable (built into his Aussie genes, I suppose), but he’s also incredibly savvy when it comes to storytelling.  He’s smart, talented, collaborative, and he knows how to create worlds.

His show, WAKEFIELD tackles one of the most important topics of our time: mental health.  When I watched the trailer, I could see a world that was created with emotional substance, style, and grace.

RS: Five words to describe yourself.

SM: Curious.  Driven.  Looking to laugh.

RS: When did you know that you had a career in writing? 

SM: Writing my first episode of the first TV show I worked on.  I’d graduated film school about eighteen months earlier and managed to get myself hired straight into the writing department of a long running medical drama called All Saints.  I was the equivalent of a staff writer, taking notes in the writers’ room and getting coffees.  In my second year I was assigned an episode – and it went well.  It was a 1-hour credit.  I was off!

Then of course the reality caught up with me… So many factors play a part.  Talent, luck, personality, timing, circumstance.  How well you weather your screw-ups.  Nothing is actually guaranteed.  In a sense, there’s a covenant that’s constantly being renewed. In return for access and opportunity, I need to stay engaged, hungry for new modes and ideas, new skills and people – and generous.  For me, the essence of creativity is generosity.

RS: If a perfect place to sit down and write exists, what would that space look like for you?  

SM: A home office, lots of glass, with a view of the water.  

RS: Do you have any rituals when it comes to your writing? 

SM: Two coffees a day – sometimes three.  And first thing in the morning I skim read 10-15 news outlets from around the world.

RS: What is your strength as a writer?  Your weakness? 

SM: I think my strength is curiosity.  And my weakness is impatience.

RS: You often hear that what makes a great writer is their voice.  What does this mean to you?

SM: In specific terms, voice for me is the marriage between a writer’s world view – history, culture, values – and their sensibilities – rhythm, tone, and vernacular. 

Voice for me is the marriage between a writer’s world view and their sensibilities.  But there’s an intangible too.

But there’s an intangible too.  The experience of a writer’s voice.  It’s about what they have to say – and how entertaining they can be in saying it.  Does the writer grip me, compel me forward, surprise and move me?

Sometimes it feels like every story has been told.  The thing that makes a story new again is the writer’s voice.  The way they tell the story.  If a writer pours themselves into a script, I can’t get that anywhere else – and it’s special.

RS: Are you an auditory or visual learner?

SM: It varies.  Both.

RS: What’s the difference between U.S. and Australian TV pitches?

SM: This is very general, but – in the most part, an Australian pitch starts with written material.  A 1-pager, 3 pages, a 5-to-10-page outline, a look-book.  That facilitates a meeting with a production company.  Adjustments are made, then you go and talk to a broadcaster or streamer to see if they’re interested in developing the project further.  That often leads to a writers’ room, a bible and a pilot script. 

In the past, producers have done the pitching without the writer present, but that’s changing now.

In the U.S., you’ve done a good part of the development yourself, worked it up into an engaging presentation, and you’re pitching to write the pilot.  It’s writer-centric.  It’s also performative in a way that Australian pitches haven’t been typically.  We’re more conversational.

RS: This might be a loaded question, but what do you think we (in the U.S.) get right and what might we be doing wrong?

SM: The breadth and depth of what the U.S. produces, the appetite for new ideas, new ways of doing things and approaching the creative, is genuinely thrilling.  There’s an ambition to push the envelope.  And so many outlets, each with their own taste and imperatives. 

It feels like there’s nothing you can create that won’t have a home somewhere.  Even a show with a niche audience is still viable in a way that it might not be in other places.

The great flow-on to writers is that it demands you be very specific about what you’re making and who you’re trying to talk to.

Beautiful writing is compelling and affecting in and of itself.  Great acting, directing and design don’t require a book/movie/graphic novel/magazine article as a base to take your breath away.

The major question I have right now – and not just for the U.S. – is around the reliance on underlying IP.  I understand the rationale regarding established audiences and risk mitigation, but I believe it’s an ever-evaporating pool. 

Also, potentially great movies and shows are being strangled in their cribs simply because their creators have tended their inner gardens, rather than harvesting from someone else’s fields.  A good idea is a good idea.  Beautiful writing is compelling and affecting in and of itself.

Great acting, directing and design don’t require a book/movie/graphic novel/magazine article as a base to take your breath away.

I’d love to see broadcasters, streamers and studios around the world take a more agnostic view.

RS: What does an Aussie writer’s room look like?  

SM: Our rooms are pretty much like writers’ rooms all over the world.  When they’re working well, it’s a bunch of writers coming together to spill their guts out on the table for their friends and colleagues to pick through and cannibalize.

RS: We are making strides pertaining to diversity — in front of and behind the cameras, in writer’s rooms, etc.  What does diversity look like in Australia?

SM: Like everywhere else in the world, we’re trying to address diversity in a meaningful way.  Clearly, for too long, key creatives from many different backgrounds have been denied inclusion, which has meant that deserving artists have had to fight harder just to be heard, or just withered on the vine.

More than that, our stories haven’t been as representative or rich as they could’ve been.  I feel like broadly, the industry here recognises that and there have been a number of initiatives launched to start the process of accelerating opportunity and inclusion.  But it is a process — some things will work and some won’t.  I do sense a genuine commitment though.  We will get there.

RS: You constantly hear, “write what you know” — is this a frustrating question for writers?  How do you embrace that question and how does it show up in your writing?

SM: If it’s taken literally – that you can only write from lived experience – then I worry it’s limiting rather than inspiring and empowering.  At its best, I take it to mean, what idea, experience, or emotional truth is occupying you at this moment?  What does it make you want to say to the world?  What is the most entertaining and truthful way to say it?

“Write what you know” is useful in a practical way when something is not working.  It’s usually because it’s not growing out of anything real.  The discipline then is to go back to where it’s personal to you and re-interrogate the work.

I do think you have to know how a piece of writing, or a show, is personal to you.  That holds true for something you’ve generated and something you’ve been hired on to.

‘Write what you know’ is useful in a practical way when something is not working.  It’s usually because it’s not growing out of anything real.  The discipline then is to go back to where it’s personal to you and re-interrogate the work.

RS: How do you approach character?  What’s a comfortable amount of back story you like to give them?

SM: It’s a bit of a movable feast.  At a minimum, in order to tap into a character’s world view, I need to know the basics: where they grew up, socio-economics, family dynamics, any major traumas or successes.  I also have to know the contrasts at the heart of a character.  These things might amount to a handful of bullet points. 

It depends on the form of the work.  In a feature film you’ve only got two hours, so to a degree I think you’ve got to know everything because the life of the characters outside the frame is as important as what’s on-screen.  In TV, I feel like you’ve got more scope to discover along the way because invariably, the longer the story goes on, the more of the life outside the frame – and the character’s history – is going to find its way on-screen.

RS: How many characters have you created where you’ve included traits based on people you know? 

SM: Every character has something of someone you’ve either met or are close to.  How can they not?

RS: Are there any books that are your go-to books when you feel stuck in your writing?  If so, which ones?

SM: Not so much books.  I’ve read a bookshelf’s worth of screenwriting manuals – and a lot of them were great.  Now it’s about process.  If I get stuck, I go back on two fronts:

Creatively, I go to questions.  Why did I want to write what’s in front of me?  What am I trying to say?  What intrigued me about a particular character when I started?  What does that character want?  What is the character desperate for the world not to know about them?  What do I want the audience to feel in this moment?  At the end of the piece?  What scene or sequence was I really looking forward to writing when I set out?

Mechanically, there are ways to shake things up that can be really productive.  Write this scene in an hour – good or bad – move on and come back.  Reverse the status of the scene or story.  Who really has the upper-hand?  Change a hero to a villain and a villain to a hero.  Start the story with the climax.  Move the turning points around.  Change a character’s vocation. 

The list goes on… Most of which won’t be in your submitted draft, but they can open up possibilities – and that’s all you need to launch on again.

RS: When mapping out a series, do you ever know or imagine what your last episode will look like?

SM: If it’s a limited series, particularly a mystery of some sort, I think it’s essential.

If it’s a longer-run show, I try to have a sense of how the characters and stories could evolve across a number of seasons.  It might only be a loose guess, but I think it keeps you focused on endowing the present with the potential of the future, which rewards a loyal audience over time.

RS: If a studio gave you carte blanche to remake any movie, what would it be?  TV Show?  Why?

SM: The West Wing.  Only I wouldn’t remake it – I love the original so much – I’d love to see Aaron Sorkin reboot it as a limited series.

The West Wing: RFK.  What if Robert Kennedy had survived the attack in 1968 and won the presidency?  What would he have done as president?  Where would the world be today?  As far as why?  Because I think 1968 marked the moment where the world – or certainly the west – broadly took the path of the individual’s wants and desires over the greater needs of society.

And now more than ever we need to see the alternative path lit – with all of Sorkin’s intellect, heart, and wit.

RS: What is your all time favorite comedy?  Drama?  Why?

SM: TV: As above – The West Wing.  Because – those characters, wielded by Aaron Sorkin.

Movies: Tootsie – genius on every level.  Funny, insightful, brilliantly plotted, surprising and inevitable.  Also, Braveheart – anthemic devotion to the sacrifice required for true love.

RS: IF you can recall, what was the last thing that you overheard a stranger say that tickled you or was memorable? 

SM: “Second-hand wedding dress shop.”

I was walking along the Esplanade on Balmoral Beach in Sydney with a buddy and two young women passed by.  The only grab of their conversation that I caught was this.  I didn’t get any context – before or after.  It was literally a moment, but I haven’t stopped thinking about it.

I mean, it’s an ode to broken dreams in five words – or a nod to hope and resilience.  I can’t decide which.  Maybe both.  But it’s definitely the beginning of a new show premise.

RS: What form of communication do you prefer?  Email?  Text?  An actual voice?  Zoom?

SM: Hard to go past a face-to-face conversation.

RS: Give me one word to describe each: Tik Tok.  Instagram.  Facebook.

SM: Frivolous.  Transporting.  Useful.

RS: Your description on Twitter: you write, “Soft drink aficionado.”  How so? 

SM: I decided at 15 that I wasn’t going to drink alcohol – so I’ve tried and tested a lot of alternatives.  And I have to say Coca Cola is the greatest beverage ever invented.  It is my vice.

RS: Lastly, you have kids:  What’s the best lesson you’ve learned (so far) from them?

SM: No matter what you might think is important in any given moment, there’s always something genuinely more important.

There you have it. The sensational Sam Meikle.

His new show, WAKEFIELD premieres Monday, October 18th on Showtime.  I know where I’ll be!

WAKEFIELD’S Official Showtime Trailer:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yo_03zhQC4

For more Q&A’s: https://rebecca-stay.com/blog

Bio: 

Sam Meikle is a highly experienced writer and creator with over 200 hours of produced credits across a broad range of television dramas, comedies, animation and web series. He has worked extensively in program development for many of Australia’s leading production houses, and he’s written and interviewed for documentary works. His short films have screened at festivals around the world and he’s been engaged to develop multiple feature film projects. Sam holds a Masters in screenwriting from the AFTRS (2000), he’s a graduate of the NIDA Playwrights’ Studio (2000), a recipient of a 2009 Australian Writers’ Guild/Arts NSW Mentorship, along with the 2014 Inscription Enderby Entertainment Scholarship. He was a member of the Screen Australia Talent USA delegation in 2018, the Scripted Ink/AWG Pathways Los Angeles delegation in 2019, and he has been nominated for 11 Australian Writers’ Guild Awards and won 4.

Most recently, Sam was a writer, an Executive Producer and co-showrunner of Wakefield for the ABC, BBC Studios and Showtime, and he’s a co-creator and Executive Producer of MaveriX for the ABC and Netflix.

You can find Sam on Instagram @ sam.m.meikle

ADVICE, Interview, People1 Comment

TV Showrunner, Sheryl J. Anderson

|Sheryl J. Anderson|

Sheryl J. Anderson is the Showrunner on the Netflix series, Sweet Magnolias. The streamer categorizes the beloved show as “Heartfelt, emotional, and feel good.” It’s a type of show we all seem to be craving these days.

Sheryl is one classy dame. I’ve had the good fortune to develop with her and she’s all the things you hope for: Collaborative, smart, creative, respectful and more than delightful.

And now with three seasons under her Netflix belt, she teased us with new development, how to pitch and where she’s headed on her next vacation.

RS: When was the moment you knew you could write for a living? 

SA: I felt that way briefly last week. I hope to feel that way again in another week or two.

RS: Did you come into the industry with any connections or did you initially fly blind?

SA: A friend of mine from college had come out here a couple of years before I did. She was my guide, but we were both learning as we went.

RS: Do you have a favorite mentor? If so, who and why are they (amongst) your favorite?

SA: I didn’t have a writing mentor (which is why I mentor now), but my first bosses in television were Rob Kaplan and Grant Tinker. They led by example, and taught me that being good to people encourages them to do their best work. And Grant said, “Hire the best people, then get out of their way,” which I try to do to this day.

Hire the best people, then get out of their way.

RS: What’s the best and worst advice you’ve ever received?

SA: The best advice: See Grant Tinker, above. The worst advice: “It won’t bump them.” It always does.

RS: Describe some writer-y pet peeves you have.

SA: I insist on good grammar, proofreading, and the Oxford comma. I also believe “that” should be used only when absolutely necessary.

RS: When first working on a project, how do you begin your process? 

SA: It varies, but most of the time, it’s some variation on “What if…?” “What if I were in this situation?” “What if this character and this character were in conflict?” I like to identify the central conflict and the core characters as soon as possible, though I know there’s an excellent chance all of that will shift as I dig more deeply.

RS: What would you consider your strengths as a writer? What do you struggle with?

SA: I believe characters and dialogue are my strengths. My producing director recently complimented me on the musicality of my writing, and I cherish that. My biggest struggle is with the opening scene of a new script; with apologies to William Carlos Williams, so much depends on that first line from that first character in that first scene.

RS: On your show, how have you moved the needle when it comes to diversity – in front of and behind the camera?

SA: In my first discussions with my fellow executive producers on Sweet Magnolias, I told them I was committed to a diverse cast; they agreed. So when we were hiring behind the camera, I again emphasized seeking out diverse candidates and, in particular, advocated for female department heads.

RS: More times than not, do you feel the pressure to take studio or network notes literally or are you at a place in your career where you feel trusted to hear the spirit of the note?

SA: I am at a place in my career where experience has taught me there is often “a note behind the note,” and I’ll ask more questions until I’m clear on the true meaning of the note.

On Executive’s Notes: There is often a note behind the note.

Then I’m better positioned to offer the options I have to address it. One of the things I love most about working with our executives at Netflix is their willingness to discuss notes and to listen meaningfully to my concerns in return.

RS: What’s the hardest note to receive from an executive? 

SA: “This doesn’t work for me.” Specific feedback leads to quicker, better resolutions of the places where we aren’t in sync.

RS: We’ve all had bad experiences at one time or another. What is one that you were able to spin into a positive? 

SA: I’ve been on toxic shows where I met remarkable people and learned a lot about how not to run a show.

RS: What did DAY ONE in the writer’s room of Sweet Magnolias look like? How different do these days look – from the start of production on S1 to S2.

SA: I think we got more goodies on Day One of Season One. Otherwise, the beginning of both seasons was a week or so of talking through stories we’d like to tell in the course of the season and how those stories might arc out. Lots of blue skies and broad strokes before we dove into specific breaks.

RS: For staffing, are you looking at the writer as a whole, or are you looking to assemble a room where the writers complement each other’s strengths?  I.E. One is great with story, one with character, one with dialogue?

SA: I look at the writer as a whole, because they are going to be responsible for an entire draft. Sure, some people have noticeable strengths, but I’m looking for well-rounded people whose samples feature memorable characters in emotionally dynamic stories.

On Staffing: I look at the writer as a whole, because they are going to be responsible for an entire draft.

RS: Are all of the writers the original staff or did you have to make adjustments?

SA: Two writers from Season 1 moved to other projects between seasons, so I hired two new writers for Season 2 (for a room of four writers plus me).

RS: When do you know a writer isn’t a good fit on a show you’re running? What are the signs? 

SA: I don’t like naysayers: I tell my writers they can’t say “no” to someone else’s pitch unless they have a fix for the problem. I don’t like lecturers – the writers who feel they must stop the momentum to “teach” everyone something. And, obviously, missing deadlines is a huge problem.

RS: Communication is key when in production, but more times than not, people struggle with it. Have there been instances where you’ve struggled?

SA: If you never answer in the heat of the moment, communication tends to be clearer and more productive. It’s amazing what taking a deep breath and a short walk can do to temper an answer.

On communication: It’s amazing what taking a deep breath and a short walk can do to temper an answer.

It’s also important to let the other individual express the entirety of their concern before you jump in, cut them off, and try to “solve” a problem you may not fully understand yet.

RS: What do you enjoy more… being in a writer’s room or being on set? 

SA: You’re asking me whether I like being in the kitchen or in the dining room, when what I really like to do is eat. I love the room because of the thrill of creating something with people I adore and respect. I love the set because of the thrill of seeing that something be brought to life by people I adore and respect.

In either place, I am there to make sure people feel supported, inspired, and appreciated. My biggest responsibility is that everyone feel safe, heard, and respected, and to help fix the problem if they don’t (the mantra I share, in the room and on the set, the first day of every season).

RS: What are some hard lessons you learned early on in your career?

SA: I thought “the work will speak for itself.” It doesn’t. You have to stand up for your work – and for yourself.

I have also learned, less early on, a certain personality type will take politeness as a sign of weakness. So, again: You have to stand up for your work and for yourself.

“The work will speak for itself.” It doesn’t. You have to stand up for your work — and for yourself.

RS: You’ve written some mystery novels. Do you think you’ll ever adapt them for the screen? 

SA: I think about it from time to time. We’ll see.

RS: On Instagram, your “tag” is, “Showrunner, SWEET MAGNOLIAS (Netflix). Author of the Molly Forrester Mysteries. And some other stuff you haven’t heard about… yet.” So… what is “some other stuff” we haven’t heard yet? 

SA: I have a couple of projects in development, plus a swirl of spec ideas. I look forward to sharing them when it’s appropriate.

RS: If you had a vision board, what would be on it? 

SA: Costume and production sketches for my next show.

RS: Do you have a favorite spot to write (when in development mode)?

SA: My living room couch. (I sit at my desk when I’m in work mode, because I daydream less there: The chair is less comfortable than the couch.)

RS: When you are pitching/selling, do you have an instinct in regard to how much to include in a pitch? From too little to too much?

SA: I find that balance varies from producer to producer. I think I have good instincts, but I’m always ready to revise. The goal is to have the buyer lean in because their appetite is whetted, not push back from the table because they’re full and don’t want anymore.

On Pitching: The goal is to have the buyer lean in because their appetite is whetted, not push back from the table because they’re full and don’t want anymore.

RS: What’s your favorite genre to write in? 

Family drama – whether it’s framed in a procedural, the supernatural, or “everyday” life.

RS: Most embarrassing moment(s)… while pitching, on set, in writer’s room?

SA: I’ve either been extremely lucky or I’ve blocked them all out.

RS: What’s a favorite book that you wish you could or could have adapt(ed)?

SA: Now you’re asking me to reveal my development slate!

RS: Your ideal vacation?

SA: Traveling with my kids and my brother. We have a wish list ready for when the world opens back up; it ranges from the Bourbon Trail to our ancestral castle in Scotland, with loads of marvelous places in between.

There you  have it… tidbits and wisdom from the incredibly special Sheryl J. Anderson.

Look out for Season Two of Sweet Magnolias… coming in 2022.

For more like this one, go to: https://rebecca-stay.com/qa-with-tv-veteran-donald-todd-showrunner-and-creator-of-the-upcoming-netflix-show-florida-man

Bio: 

Sheryl J. Anderson is the showrunner of Sweet Magnolias, a romantic drama for Netflix that just wrapped production on Season Two, and has a variety of projects in development. She began her writing journey as a playwriting major at The College of William & Mary. Lured to Los Angeles by the intrigue of television and the promise of 300 sunny days a year, she worked as a television studio executive, screenwriter, and half-hour series writer (Parker Lewis Can’t Lose, Dave’s World). She then moved to writing and producing hour-long series, working on a wide range of series (Charmed, Flash Gordon, When Calls the Heart). She has sold pilots to Disney, SyFy, NBC, and Lifetime, and written movies for Hallmark, UPtv, and Lifetime.  Sheryl also teaches and mentors through a variety of universities and organizations.

 

 

 

 

ADVICE, Interview, People1 Comment

Artistic Director of The Second City: Nancy Hayden

|Nancy.Hayden|

You know those people you meet and it feels like you’ve known them your whole life? Yeah, that’s Nancy. She’s someone I could sit and talk with for hours.

Nancy Hayden is the Artistic Director of The Second City in Chicago. Our paths crossed when she still lived in Los Angeles. We had instant chemistry. I read (and loved) a spec she’d written, but when we couldn’t get any traction with it (hey, no project is truly dead, right?!), we promised some day we’d find something else to work on together.

This Q&A will have to do in the meantime…

RS:  How do you become the Artistic Director of a legendary improv company during a pandemic?  

NH:  Same way you get to Broadway – practice, practice, practice! The AD part came through a couple decades of working my way up through The Second City as a performer, instructor, director, producer… I eventually became Associate Artistic Director of SC Hollywood and from there I became AD in Chicago. The pandemic part was just luck! 😉 I officially started the job the very Monday the lockdown began. That will forever make a good story.

RS:  What’s a day in the life of Nancy look like? 

NH:  After I walk my dog I make coffee… Oh, you mean the job! My main duty and privilege is to oversee and assist the 100+ teachers of SC Chicago – they are an amazingly experienced group of working professionals and working with them is one of the biggest highlights of my job. I also get to design and create the curriculum for the Training Center which is so much creative fun and make new partnerships for the outreach and growth of the TC. Then there are very exciting duties such as running auditions, watching class shows etc.

RS:  How do you challenge yourself?

NH:  Plenty of opportunity to do that after this past year. As we attempt to emerge from the pandemic we are tasked with managing our “new normal.” For me, that includes rebuilding our training center class numbers and always seeking to add new classes and programs. Personally, I’ve been challenging myself to wear pants most days! So far, I’ve hit that goal some days.

RS:  So many legendary people have come out of Second City: Bill Murray, Gilda Radner, Catherine O’Hara, Eugene Levy, Steve Carell… the list goes on and on. How does one get past that intimidation factor?

NH:  Luckily, when I first auditioned and got hired at The Second City I was too young to be as terrified as I probably should have been. And once you’re in and are doing the work, you’re definitely intimidated once you get the opportunity to meet and (if you’re lucky) even work with some of our most incredible alumni. But I have tried to use those opportunities to be inspired rather than intimidated. Sometimes it works. (Although I did once tell Fred Willard that “I liked his shoes” when I met him as opposed to telling him how much I’ve loved his work – super tanked that moment.)

Overcoming Intimidation: I was too young to be terrified. I’ve tried to use those opportunities to be inspired rather than intimidated.

RS:  Where do you draw your confidence from? 

NH:  That’s easy – from my scene partners/castmates. The thing I love most about improv is that it’s an ensemble art form. If you’re doing it correctly, you’re only as good as your scene partner, no one is grandstanding and you’re going to sink or swim together. I love that camaraderie and I rely on it to help me feel comfortable in front of any audience.

RS:  Improv truly is an art form. What’s the number one thing students have difficulty nailing down? 

NH:  Believe it or not, even though most improv is about comedy, the number one lesson most beginning improv students struggle with is not trying to be funny. Comedy is all about committing fully to the reality of the scene and playing it earnestly from the character’s point of view.

The best improvisers play comedy as if their characters think it’s drama.

The more the actors “wink” at the audience or push for the joke, the more they remove the audience from the scene. The best improvisers play comedy as if their characters think it’s drama.

RS:  When do you know you’ve spotted talent? Can you articulate that “it” factor? 

NH:  Wow, softball question, much? That is such a subjective moment, it’s really hard to put it into words.

I’m a true believer that training, discipline and hard work can make people grow in leaps and bounds.

But I think it has something to do with natural charisma, that may be the part people are born with that potentially sets them apart from the crowd. BUT. I’m a true believer that training, discipline and hard work can make people grow in leaps and bounds. And “natural” talent is no replacement for commitment, professionalism and reliability. One might get you in the door but the rest of those skills are what will keep you working.

RS:  Did you always want to perform and write? 

NH:  Perform, yes, absolutely! Started doing plays and musicals when I was 7 and played the Nana in The Velveteen Rabbit. But, although, I loved creative writing in high school and college, it wasn’t until I got into the cast of The Second City that I began to consider pursuing writing as a marketable skill. The casts at SC write and perform all of the revues and writing sketch comedy taught me SO much.

RS:  How does improv play a role in your writing? 

NH:  We’re always improvising our way through life. So, when I’m working on a scene for a pilot I may be writing alone in my room (sans pants btw) but I’m definitely improvising as I play out in my head the scene and its dialogue. We also use improv a ton in writers’ rooms as we punch up jokes and dialogue, right? Bouncing those ideas off of each other is exactly what we do at The Second City when we improvise and turn a scene into a sketch.

RS:  Improvisation has so many life benefits; it can better one’s listening skills, work on team building, and strengthens one’s ability to think on their feet. Beyond your day job, how has it benefited you in your own life? 

NH:  I won’t get up on my soapbox right now and boldly announce that improv can save lives…but it super can in my humble opinion. And I’m far from being the only one who believes that. My students tell me all the time that improv training and its tenets of agreement, listening and support of one another has made them a better parent, partner, co-worker, boss, teacher, nurse, attorney…the list goes on. It builds confidence that you can handle any situation and helps you stay in and play each moment as they come. Truly Zen stuff, when done correctly.

My students tell me all the time that improv training and its tenets of agreement, listening and support of one another has made them a better parent, partner, co-worker, boss, teacher, nurse, attorney…the list goes on.

RS:  Was comedy and a sense of humor a big part of your childhood? 

NH:  100%! My whole family is hysterical and we laughed our way through life, something I’m very grateful for. My brother, especially, was a huge influence on my sense of humor. I used to sneak and listen to his Steve Martin and Richard Pryor albums to learn timing and we would sit at the dinner table and re-enact word for word scenes from our favorite sitcoms we’d watched the night before. Drove my sister insane!

I used to sneak and listen to Steve Martin and Richard Pryor albums to learn timing.

RS:  Who have been some of your mentors and why? 

NH:  I was a HUGE Gilda Radner fan even before I knew what The Second City was and that she’d gotten her start there. She was from Detroit, like me, and I just thought she was so, so, soooo funny but also seemed sweet and good and full of joy. She made you smile just to look at her even before she made you laugh. I could talk about her all day. I also love Catharine O’Hara, Andrea Martin and Elaine May. Some of my comedic writing mentors are Nora Ephron, Carrie Fisher and Trey Parker and Matt Stone. (Took a bit of a left turn there, I know.) I love the combo of comedy and musical theater and I think they’re brilliant at it.

RS:  What has been some surprising advice you’ve gotten? What’s been the worst advice you ever received? 

NH:  Surprising – that no one, even in the upper echelons of our business, truly knows what they’re doing and that we’re all just making it up as we go along. When you embrace that, and you’re an improviser, it makes you a lot more confident in meetings/auditions of any level.

On worst advice received:  A producer told me that sketch ensembles do their best work when there is some feeling of discord or contention. That if they get along “too well” the work will be boring. WRONG. You don’t need to be a jerk to do good work. In fact, you’ll go a lot farther if you’re nice.

Also, that Hollywood is a small town and community. It really is true! Worst advice was from a producer who told me that sketch ensembles do their best work when there is some feeling of discord or contention. That if they get along “too well” the work will be boring. WRONG. You don’t need to be a jerk to do good work. In fact, you’ll go a lot farther if you’re nice.

RS:  If you could switch places with someone for one day, who would it be and why? 

NH:  Wow. That’s tough. You’re running the risk of having me do years of work to be happy in my own skin. Ummmm…maybe Serena Williams? I’d say everything I’ve achieved in my life has been accomplished with my mind and wits, I think it would be really cool to know for a day what it feels like to be that physically (and mentally) brilliant.

RS:  What does the perfect day look like for you? 

NH:  Coffee, my husband and dog, slow start to a sunny but cool day at a house on Lake Michigan. Then taking long walks, cooking some delicious food, reading and watching movies. Then rinse and repeat every day for a couple weeks.

RS:  Best binge worthy show? 

NH:  Definitely depends on the genre. I’ve watched the entirety of The West Wing at least four or five times. Comedy? I loved Parks & Recreation, I thought the character arcs were funny and sweet and touching and wonderful. Speaking of brilliant arcs, like everyone else I’m a huge Schitt’s Creek fan, could watch that over and over for sure. Other incredibly funny shows I’ve binged several times – The IT Crowd, The Carol Burnett Show, Miranda, French & Saunders, Ab Fab, Mr. Show, Strangers With Candy, That Mitchell & Webb Look…

RS:  What show — current and from the past — defines your kind of humor and the comedy you like to write? 

NH:  While I would in no way compare my abilities as a creator to those of a Phoebe Waller Bridge, I’d say Fleabag is a show that struck a chord with SO many of us because we all see ourselves as huge messes who are constantly striving to get our shit together and do better, while continuing to get in our own way.

I’m drawn to creating characters like Fleabag and Liz Lemon who bungle their lives on the regular but manage to get up the next day and try it again.

I’m drawn to creating characters like Fleabag and Liz Lemon who bungle their lives on the regular but manage to get up the next day and try it again. I root for them. I want them to win. And I love the pathos that come along with characters like Fleabag as well. Laughter that comes out of heartbreak and cringing – that’s good stuff right there.

RS:  Do you want to branch out from solely comedy? What other genres intrigue you? 

NH:  Everything intrigues me. I love historical romance fiction, would love to write something like that. I’d also love – seriously – to write a Hallmark-style Christmas movie. There’s something just so soothing and cheesily joyful about movies like that. I’m intrigued by procedural drama and how to slowly explore those characters while solving mysteries/crimes etc.

RS:  If you had access to studio and network executives and could ask them anything, what would it be?

NH:  Would you like to produce my pilot Pretty Face? It’s really good, I promise! 😉

RS:  What is on the horizon for you? 

NH:  In the writing realms, who knows?? I’m excited for all of us to process the insanity and stressors we’re living through and see what it does to all of our styles and points of view. I think our senses of humor and general takes on life will be altered in ways we don’t yet understand. At The Second City, as we return to in-person classroom learning at the Training Center, I’m excited to keep going with the virtual training we were forced to create during the lockdown. That will continue to give us a chance to reach students around the world and I’m so excited to explore those opportunities!

RS:  Last question: What is one thing about yourself that you have never revealed – that would surprise people you know?

NH:  I have never done standup comedy and the thought of it terrifies me! I’ll get on any stage, any time, but I’m all about hiding behind a character and relying on the others onstage with me. Like many comedians, I can be pretty quiet and introverted – sometimes. When I’m with close friends, though, you can’t shut me up. Like now! I could talk to you forever, Rebecca! Thanks so much for having me!

There you have it. Comedy golden nuggets from the naturally gifted (who works SUPER hard)… Nancy Hayden.

Nancy is a comedy treasure. You may not know who she is, but I still have faith that in the not too distant future, you will definitely know her name. She’s one of those diamonds in the rough. On the surface she’ll become this “overnight success” who you’ll discover was decades in the making.

Update: Nancy is now the Executive Director of The Detroit Creativity Project.

BIO: 

Nancy Hayden began her comedy career as a writer/performer in The Second City Detroit Mainstage cast, co-writing and appearing in five revues. She went on to direct several Second City productions and served as Producer of The Second City Detroit.

Nancy has worked as a staff writer for “Detroiters” on Comedy Central, as well as several productions for Bravo, including “Bravo After Hours” and the digital series, “Ex-Housewife.” She co-wrote “Love, Factually” for The Kennedy Center.

She served as Associate Artistic Director of The Second City Hollywood before relocating back to her Midwestern roots when she was named Artistic Director of Education for the Second City Chicago.