|Betsy.Thomas|
Betsy and I met in a very L.A. fashion. Our kids went to the same elementary school and we were on the same committee to raise money for said school. We had much in common given we swim in similar work circles… six degrees or less from many.
She’s my kind of person… so witty with an enormous heart. On many occasions she’s been a wonderful sounding board when I’ve needed it and below is no different with the oh so many wonderful nuggets she shares.
RS: How many times throughout your career have you been (in name only) confused with director, Betty Thomas? (Sorry, I could not resist)
BT: Surprisingly not as many as you’d think! I mean, who knows what happens in executive’s offices or agencies or whatever before I hear about it – I’m sure there are lots of people that are often getting all that wrong. Betty’s terrific, we met once and she said she keeps getting my mail! I think when I start directing features it might get more confusing.
RS: If I believe everything on Wikipedia, you began your career with My So-Called Life, which was a drama (and one of my favs at the time), but then it seems you took a deep dive into comedy and multi-cam after that show… was that by choice?
BT: Yes. That was such an incredible show. But I remember after I turned my first draft into Winnie Holzman, she took it and rewrote it. I was young and new and had only written a couple of plays and a screenplay at the time, so I thought being rewritten meant you had terribly failed. After being in TV a while, I realized that rewriting – especially for a first season show—is just part of the deal to try to get the voice consistent.
On being a staff writer:
I thought being rewritten meant you had terribly failed. After being in TV a while, I realized that rewriting — especially for a first season show — is just part of the deal to get the voice consistent.
All of this is to say that in retrospect, my episode was NOT in the tone of the show and was way too comedic. So yeah, I figured – I think I belong in comedy. I’ll always go toward the joke instead of the drama.
RS: What was the biggest lesson you took out of working on a drama?
BT: I think the biggest lesson was not really “drama” related – but realizing that my job wasn’t to write my version of that show, but to write as close to Winnie’s voice as possible. That’s being a TV staff writer.
RS: As a writer/director, do you find you write in a bit of a shorthand because you see things visually as a director?
BT: I’m very aware that people will be reading the script and need to be led. If anything, I think I’m more specific and detailed with the stage directions because I have such a better sense of how it should look and feel, and I want that to come across very clearly.
RS: Did you ever shadow on a TV show before getting your first shot and if so, what show and what director? What was the biggest take-away?
BT: You know, being a writer and showrunner before I was directing allowed me to have a front row seat, so I never really needed to shadow anyone. And many directors I worked with knew I was interested in directing, so they would share their knowledge with me or answer my questions. But the hours and hours in editing are really what teach you about directing – learning what you have, what you need, what you wish you had – these were all the most invaluable tools.
On directing:
The hours and hours in editing are really what teach you about directing. Learning what you have, what you need, what you wish you had — these were the most invaluable tools.
I think because I come from the showrunner’s perspective, I am very cognizant of making sure when they get in the editing room (after my cut), they have everything they need to make a great episode.
RS: When directing various shows, do you have a trademark shot you use? Any Betsy easter eggs planted — that if someone were watching closely, would know it’s a wink from you? In other words, when you’re a guest director, you’re tasked with keeping within a template, but how do you inject a little of your own originality?
BT: Not really, but now I think I should! You know, I’m a yin-yang person in that I like opposites together – like sweet and salty, etc. So when I direct comedy, I really like to find at least one moment and play the real/emotional of it. My favorite movies and TV shows have always struck a balance between the two – there are hilarious moments in “Terms of Endearment” and super dramatic moments in “MASH” or “The Office.” I laughed out loud at “JoJo Rabbit” but also cried my eyes out. By the same token, in the two one-hours I’ve directed, I really try to push the comedy and find ways to dig out jokes or funny moments. I think in the comedy I do I try to give it a little “feely” moment.
RS: Do you still get nervous when directing? How do you tame those nerves?
BT: OF COURSE I DO! Oh my god, yes. Obviously confidence is the best nerve tamer, so when I go back to a show many times – like “Superstore” – I’m less and less nervous, because I know the cast and crew and writers and I feel at home. But going to a new show with people you don’t know? UGH, I fight the butterflies. I try to get to know people, touch base with everyone, and be really prepared and communicative.
Going to a new show with people you don’t know? I try to get to know people, touch base with everyone, and be really prepared and communicative.
That helps. During prep — go to set, meet the cast, the DP, spend lots of time with your AD, get to know the department heads – that all helps break the ice. If you worry about what people think of you – or whether you’re doing a good job – that’s a sure road to not doing your best. I think as a woman I put a lot of pressure on myself to do right by my gender – that it’s not enough for me to be good, but I feel like I have to be great to combat what I am sure is varying degrees of sexism and skepticism. I’m sure that’s getting better now (in society) and I wonder if young women directors feel that pressure, or if that’s just a long-lasting hangover from being a showrunner and director when it was mostly men.
RS: When directing, what comes naturally to you now? Is there any part of directing that feels like it’s second nature?
BT: I’d say working with the actors. I can watch a take and know instinctively what’s not working or what needs to be fixed and feel really confident about needing another take and what the note needs to be. I also know when we have it and it’s time to move on. Actors can be scary – I’ve definitely worked with some difficult ones and some screamers. But in general I really like actors and the process of getting a performance from them – even if that means landing a joke in multi-cam.
On what comes naturally:
Working with actors. I know when we have it and it’s time to move on. I never walk into the set until I know what the note is. They’re hanging out there, so vulnerable — they need to feel like you are at the wheel of this ship and you know exactly how to guide them.
The one thing I make sure – I never walk into the set until I know what the note is. I never walk up to an actor until I’m entirely sure exactly what I’m going to say. Sometimes that’s even – let’s just do another one” or “we have it, so let’s do one for fun.” But those poor actors – they’re hanging out there, so vulnerable – they need to feel like you are at the wheel of this ship and you know exactly how to guide them.
RS: What’s the hardest part of directing?
BT: Stamina. I’m really outgoing and love to do bits with the actors. I like to keep the set light and positive and fun, and all of that is exhausting – particularly in multi-cam. Multi-cam wipes me out far more than single cam. You just don’t ever have any down time – rehearsals go straight into run-thrus and show night is like hosting a Broadway show. As a director, I’m managing personalities between the actors and the showrunner or other actors or whatever – it’s taking on a lot of people’s fear or anger or frustration or whatever. At the end of a show night I am absolutely fried.
RS: How do you creatively challenge yourself? Keep yourself fresh… What does that exercise look like?
BT: I think it’s important for me to take opportunities that scare me a little – that might feel like it’s not in my comfort zone (for various reasons). Those situations always teach me incredibly invaluable things and boost my confidence.
On creatively challenging herself:
Take opportunities that scare me a little — that might feel like it’s not in my comfort zone. Those situations always teach me incredibly invaluable things and boost my confidence.
Like I directed an episode of “Turner & Hooch” and at first I was honestly really reluctant – go to Vancouver? (never had) To do a one-hour with dogs and action? (never done action) But it ended up being just a fantastic experience – I learned so much about directing action and stunts, working with a 2nd unit – I was in the woods for days and had to storyboard action sequences. I came out of there a different director.
RS: Do you have a preference… staffing or development?
BT: Well, my first choice is running my own show – that’s the best. But after that, probably development, just because it’s on the journey to getting my own show. Although I really have loved my last two staffing experiences – on Superior Donuts and Abby’s – it was super fun to just be another voice in the room instead of THE voice in the room.
RS: What is your writing process? How do you get yourself started?
BT: Oh, I procrastinate A LOT. It’s like standing at the base of a mountain and looking straight up wondering how the hell you’re going to get to the top. So I’ll do anything to avoid THAT. I cook, I clean my office – suddenly it becomes imperative that I take pants to be hemmed, start playing tennis, or scan and catalog my photos.
It’s been so many years now that I’ve talked myself into that “my brain is actually working on the idea, it’s simmering during this time.” But that could be bullshit and it’s probably most likely that I’m scared to open myself up again, which is what writing feels like – giving birth to an entire new world only so someone can come along and start picking it apart.
Ultimately after having weeks of a tormented inner battle, I get to a point where I HAVE to turn something in, so I just accept that I’m going to write pure shit, drop into a zone and push out a pitch doc or an outline or a draft, whatever – and then of course, I’ve fallen in love with this new world I just created, so now I’m hooked and feel good about it because I climbed the mountain and it’s not scary anymore. My writer friends who know me well joke that I write a pilot in 2 days.
Well, it takes a little longer than that, but I do work pretty quickly once there’s a gun to my head.
RS: As a showrunner, what does day one in a writer’s room look like?
BT: Single-cam and multi-cam are pretty different. With multi-cam we might be spending the morning breaking a story or punching up a draft, but then we go to the run-thru after lunch and see the little play of the show and do a rewrite afterwards. That’s why multi-cam hours can be so much worse for writers – sometimes we don’t even get started on that rewrite until 5 pm or later, so on run-thru days you’re lucky to get out by 7:30/8 pm. Single-cam, we might be spending the day going through a rewrite of a future script or trying to break a story for a future episode, then going through that story in detail so the writer of the episode can go write an outline.
RS: What’s your advice to writers taking their first baby steps when joining a writer’s room?
BT: Listen, learn, and don’t feel you need to be constantly impressing everyone. Everyone knows a staff writer has the least experience – your job is to help make the showrunner’s life easier and contribute in whatever way you can to making the show better.
Advice on entering your first writer’s room:
Listen, learn, and don’t feel you need to be constantly impressing everyone.
So you don’t need to be always talking or pitch everything that pops into your head. Pick your shots and figure out how you can be helpful and not take up the oxygen in the room.
RS: How are you personally trying to engage and change in support of more diversity?
BT: So I’ve been developing and directing for the past few years, so I haven’t had the opportunity to hire a staff – but I’m on the board of directors of the Writers Guild West, and we’ve been working on many new inclusion & equity programs and proposals – including a hopefully very impactful showrunner outreach program.
RS: At this stage in your career, if you could only pick one moving forward, what would it be… directing or writing?
BT: Well, writing is evergreen – I don’t need anyone to do it. I will always have it. I like the control and knowing I have within me an ability to generate my own work.
RS: Best & Worst advice you ever received?
BT: Well, this isn’t exactly an answer to this question, but – when I wrote my very first screenplay for Marshall Herskovitz & Ed Zwick, I remember vividly I had just turned in my first draft and I was called in for a notes meeting. When I walked in their office, Marshall said to me, with a big smile: “Well, the things you can’t be taught you know, and the things you can, you need to learn.” It has always stuck with me, and I have passed that sentiment on to others whose writing I admire, even though they may need help with structure, etc.
RS: Are there any outside the box things that emerging writers could be doing to get started?
BT: Um… everything? Back way before the internet, we made videos with a huge camera that nobody would ever see, just for the love of it. I wrote a play just to put it on for family and friends, having no idea it would be the beginning of my real career. CREATE, CREATE, CREATE. Don’t think about where it will lead you – think about where it will lead others.
What do you have to say that is going to help move the humanity ball down the field?
What do you have to say that is going to help move the humanity ball down the field? You have to write because you love it and you have no other choice – otherwise do something else.
RS: You always hear, “Write what you know” — is that comforting or frustrating to hear? And what could that also mean? How do you translate that in your head?
BT: Well, that kind of sums me up. That is always what I have done – write from my own life experience. But at a certain age, you start to run out of that – or at least for me, I realized I had to start to change what that meant. That writing from my own personal experience wasn’t necessarily fruitful anymore, but more importantly how can I write another story and imbue it with my emotional truths.
RS: Loglines are the bane of everyone’s existence. Any advice on how to write a logline well?
BT: NOPE! I hate them. Loglines and titles. If I could write that succinctly, I wouldn’t need 35 pages.
RS: Joke writing… is it a strength or weakness of yours?
BT: I really prefer character-driven jokes in general. My biggest laughs as a viewer are ones that come from even just a look or a one-line reaction. But I have gotten better at “jokes” as I’ve gotten more experienced, for sure. I still kind of hate them, but I am much more comfortable writing them.
RS: When writing a pilot, do you have go-to people you use to punch up your scripts? For an emerging writer, what’s some advice for them if they don’t have their “people” yet? What’s a good way to get help punching up a script?
BT: I don’t do a lot of pilot punch up (probably to my detriment) because I feel like it’s cheating, even though I know everybody does it. I would say instead, do a table reading of the script with friends and afterwards, just talk about it. Talk about the things that did and didn’t work. Open a couple of bottles of wine, let people open up with their ideas about things they liked or didn’t like.
RS: What’s a show you wished you created?
BT: “Fleabag.” FOR SURE. Particularly season 2. Massive creation envy. 2nd place: “Catastrophe” and “After Life.” Weird – I picked all British shows.
RS: Who are some of your fav writers and directors in TV? Why?
BT: Well, obviously Phoebe Waller-Bridge! Also Sharon Horgan. I mean, Taika Waititi (I probably spelled that wrong). Ricky Gervais – honestly, even more for “After Life.” Michaela Coel!
RS: If you could be a character in a show, would you be the lead or the best friend?
BT: I mean, I always write the lead! Who doesn’t want to be the lead?? I guess if I were actually acting in something though, the best friend has a lot more jokes… so then probably the best friend!
RS: What’s ten years from now look like for you?
BT: OH GOD. I can’t even imagine what 2 years from now looks like. I do hope I still have a chance to get another show on the air that people like – where I can really enjoy telling stories that affect people. I hope to direct a movie – that was my dream as a 21 year-old. And mostly, honestly – I hope to still be alive 10 years from now.
On the future:
I just want to be vibrant and crazy and loving, hurtling toward wisdom. The dream for me would to be to have a play I wrote and directed running in the West End of London.
This past couple of years I have lost so many people that I love, so I just want to be vibrant and crazy and loving, hurtling toward wisdom. The dream for me would be to have a play I wrote and directed running in the West End of London. But I’ll be thrilled to be alive and healthy and not have to worry too much about money. Being healthy and playing with grandchildren used to seem so pedantic and now it looks pretty damn good.
There you have it. Wise words from the beautiful Betsy. I’m betting that West End dream comes true and I’ll be the first in line to see what I can only imagine to be a magnificent play!
If you enjoyed this Q&A, you might enjoy this one: https://rebecca-stay.com/a-moment-with-showrunner-austen-earl
Bio:
Betsy Thomas grew up in Michigan and moved to Los Angeles with a used typewriter and no idea what the hell she would do. After lots of strokes of luck as a playwright, she wrote features and landed her first TV job on “My So-Called Life.” She moved to half-hour comedy with creating “Then Came You” (ABC), “Run of the House” (WB), and “My Boys” (TBS), which is where she began her directing career. She has also Executive Produced “Whitney” (NBC) and “Superior Donuts” (CBS) and has spent the past several years directing many shows including “The Carmichael Show,” “Superstore,” “The Neighborhood,” “Mom,” “The Unicorn,” “Turner & Hooch,” and the reboot of “Mad About You.” She is currently writing comedy pilots for TBS and FOX and will soon be directing her first feature film.