|Stephen.Chbosky|
The Perks of Being a Wallflower. Wonder. Beauty and the Beast. Dear Evan Hansen.
What do all of these beautiful IP’s have in common? Given the hint is in the title…
Surprise. It’s the extraordinary writer and director, Stephen Chbosky.
My career has been serendipitous in nature. I’ve been incredibly spoiled by opportunity — a golden opportunity at that — to work with so many talented people at the start of their tremendous careers. Chbosky is one of them. Talk about an explosive career. From Perks to Dear Evan Hansen and everything in between. It’s been a joy to watch him from the sidelines, continuing to reach the height of all heights.
Like Being John Malkovich, (except with permission), he allowed me an hour inside his head.
RS: If you could live anywhere in the world (taking the fear of the pandemic out of the equation) for a year to write, and of course be with your family, where would it be and why?
SC: Paris, France, because I love the literary tradition of the city. My favorite expatriate writers all flock there, and I get such a charge from the sidewalk cafes and walking the streets. The topography, the sense of history of the city and the fact that some of these buildings have stood there for hundreds and hundreds of years. I just love that, and it is so immaculate, so pleasing to the eye, the food is so great. You name it, Paris has it.
RS: You’ve had quite a run with adaptations and existing IP. What’s more difficult — tackling beloved IP or something from scratch?
SC: Something from scratch. No question. Because there, you have a true blank page, with adaptation, you never have a blank page, not really.
RS: Do you have a preference? Original material or existing IP?
SC: I’m split. The most satisfying is the original IP, because it is 100% born out of your imagination and in sweat equity. Adaptations are easier, they’re faster, they’re more fun because of that, and unless it’s your own book, you get to work with the authors that you admire and love. And I really enjoy that collaboration. I loved working with R.J Palacio on Wonder, and I loved working with the three authors in Dear Evan Hansen. Although, I didn’t write that, I just love working with authors, so it’s always a treat.
RS: Taking Wonder as an example: when other writers are involved, what were you stepping into? What do the mechanics of that look like, and who has the last word as far as the final draft?
SC: There were a few. Jack Thorne was the first writer, then there was a writing team that came on and then Steven Conrad came in and then I was the last. Ultimately, the director and/or producers have the last word. In this case with Wonder, I was the director as well, so ultimately, I made most of those calls. But the editing process changed a lot, and Mandeville, Todd, David, and Alex had great notes. So did my late great editor, Mark Livolsi, he was brilliant, but ultimately, it’s either the director’s call or the producer’s call. And luckily, we all saw the same movie with Wonder, and so there was no friction.
RS: Before starting production on Wonder, did you have many conversations with the author in order to make sure she felt good about the direction you were headed, and if so, what did those conversations sound or look like?
SC: Oh many. Absolutely. Whenever I do an adaptation, I always have to meet with the author and I always insist, (I really don’t care what their contractual deal is), I wanna meet with them, and I want them to approve me, because if they don’t want me, I don’t wanna do the movie, or the show because I revere authors.
I am an author so I understand how precious these words, these characters and the stories are — to the author — so I wanted to show the proper respect.
I am an author, so I understand how precious these words are, how precious these characters and the stories are — to the author — so I wanted to show the proper respect.
And so with Wonder, I sat down with R.J, she approved me and then she was like my sister. We talked all the time, she visited set, I asked her whatever… like, “Hey, take a look at this scene that we’re shooting tomorrow. Anything that I’m getting wrong? Anything that you wanna add?” I was a real open book.
RS: Did she have anything to add?
SC: Yeah, she had great thoughts. My favorite moment of collaboration there was a little scene between Auggie and Summer, and Auggie in the script said, “Cool beans.” She said, “No, no, no, Summer is the one that says cool beans.” And so, I said, “Great,” so we switched that and then it led to this line where RJ said, “Oh, Summer should say, when he offers, she should say, “Cool beans, and offer her hand, and then Auggie should say, “but you’ll get the plague.” And I said, “Oh, I love that. And then I want Summer to say, “Good.” And so that was me and R.J just having a creative conversation.
That kind of stuff happened all the time, it was really fun, because again, even though R.J’s not a screen writer, she’s a brilliant, brilliant author and she understood her characters and her themes better than anybody, and so I wanted to pay tribute to that.
RS: When you’re in author mode, do you use index cards to map out the plotting, beat out your character arcs, etc. Do you use a whiteboard… What’s your process look like?
SC: No. My process is a little haphazard. I’m actually trying to improve it right now. When I start, I have a lot of notes. Just thoughts, brainstorms. I have this process I’ve done for years, I call them napkin notes. Now it’s on computers and emails, and things like that, but, back in the day, I wrote stuff on napkins. And whenever I think about a fun line or write this or that or whatever, I’ll throw them in the napkin notes. At this stage, I mean now, I’ve been doing it so long, I think it’s probably 10,000 pages long.
My process is a little haphazard. When I start, I have a lot of notes. Just thoughts, brainstorms. I categorize each thing. I call them Napkin Notes. I think it’s probably 10,000 pages long.
And what I do is, I categorize each thing, where, let’s say there’s a line, I go, “Oh, this would be good for this movie, this movie, that movie, that idea,” and here are the genres, crime, horror, whatever. And so, when I start at something fresh, like I did with Imaginary Friend a couple of years back, I’ll do a word search on horror, and I’ll do a word search on Mother. I usually start with a hundred pages of just brainstorms, or 50 pages, and I go, “Oh this will be good there,” and I start to move things around and it reveals itself to me. It’s not really an outline outline, it’s a notes outline, but it is very, very tedious and time consuming, because every time you’re moving anything you gotta move 30 pages around, so I’m trying to streamline it now.
RS: Speaking of Imaginary Friend, will it be coming to a streaming service or theater near us in the not-too-distant future?
SC: Yes, yes. It’s something that I’m very interested in adapting. And especially seeing how well horror is doing right now. I contemplated it for TV — does it work on TV, is it a miniseries, or can I get a couple of movies out of it? Like what is it? And so I’m trying to figure it out. It could be either. Right now, I’m leaning movies, but ask me again next week.
RS: How has fatherhood changed you as a writer?
SC: It’s made me a much better writer. It’s also made me much slower. I used to be able to chain smoke and stay up for 18 hours straight and be crazy, and now I don’t smoke and I don’t stay up for 18 hours or go crazy. So my character work is better, my thematic work is better, my genre work, I think, is much stronger because I used to watch movies for me, now I watch movies with the whole family, and I learn different things about what appeals in different ways and how things resonate.
When I worked on, Beauty and the Beast, it was all for my daughter and when I worked on Wonder, a lot of it was for my son, and you just see what appeals to children and what doesn’t. I know how to write for mom and dad. Learning how to write for kids, that’s something different.
RS: What does an ordinary day look like for you?
SC: It’s very interesting that you asked that question right now. That’s something that I’m trying to kind of be the author of. I moved, in the middle of the pandemic. I had Dear Evan Hansen to focus on for almost a year. And so now, the movie’s come out, I’m done. I’ll have a few more interviews for international stuff, but right now I’m nesting, and I’m finding it very, very important, to just create a workspace.
My day is I wake up, I drive the kids to school, I have breakfast with my wife, which is my favorite part of the day and then I clean and I organize and I do this and I do that, and I think about the next thing I’m writing. So it’s been a lovely time of respite, that will end very soon, and I will get right back to the salt mines of writing. I’m gonna try to be more disciplined and just say, “Okay, 10 o’clock, it’s 10 o’clock. Time to write, until 1pm or 5pm or whatever it is.
RS: How do you work through writer’s block especially when you’re up against a deadline?
SC: I’ve said this on many occasions — many different young people asking me. I truly believe that writer’s block does not exist. I think writer’s block is basically, people are editing too soon. Every writer is like this. We’re always trying to write the second draft first. That’s everybody. The only person I think that actually does it is probably Stephen King. He probably has figured out how to write the second draft first because he’s done it so many times, and so he understands the moves in a way that we mere mortals do not.
Writer’s block, in my opinion, does not exist. We’re editing too fast. Separate out the writer from the editor.
Writer’s block, in my opinion, does not exist. I think we’re editing too fast or expecting too much of a first draft. It’s just better to write today and let tomorrow tell you if it’s any good. It’s the editorial thing, that’s what plagues people. If every writer that you work with can separate out the writer from the editor, and say, “No, these are two halves of the brain. The editor has to go away right now.”
Can you imagine if I tried to film a movie and I’m on set and I have the editor sitting in the front saying, “I don’t know about this. I don’t know if this shot’s gonna work.” And you’re like, “Would you get the fuck away from me? I actually have to find the scene first, then we’ll figure out how to make it better.” And that, if you think about it in terms of creation, it’s the same with writing.
RS: You dipped your foot in the TV pool for a short while. What is one piece of advice you might give an emerging writer that you wish someone would have given to you?
SC: Basically, don’t be precious until the final cut, would be my advice. Because so often, we treat notes as if they are the enemy, and we treat executives as if they’re the enemy, and they’re not. Most of the executives I’ve worked with, yourself included, have been very smart and have given very thoughtful notes. I personally think, they’ve given too many, not you… but we get over noted, and I think part of the reason we’re over noted is because we fight against it, so there’s this weird push-pull.
We treat executives as if they’re the enemy, and they’re not. We get over noted, and I think part of the reason we’re over noted is because we fight against it, so there’s this weird push-pull.
This is the best advice I could ever give anybody, writing television. Make sure that the network you’re writing for, or the streamer you’re writing for, is the right home. When you think about The Sopranos… it was originally at ABC. Can you imagine if that had actually gone to air what that show would have been?
The best advice I could ever give anybody, writing television:
Make sure that the network you’re writing for, or the streamer you’re writing for, is the right home.
Nothing against ABC, they did, Lost, they did, Grey’s Anatomy, and they did a ton of great shows, but they wouldn’t even know what to do with Sopranos. Luckily for all of us, they put it in turn around, HBO snapped it up, and the rest is history. So, just make sure that you sell to the right place.
RS: In this oversaturated marketplace, are you excited by the future of film and TV or nervous?
SC: Oh, I’m very excited. I’m only nervous, because the theatrical business has taken such a hit. Right now, horror movies and action movies are working in theaters, thank God. So it’s keeping the theaters going. As more people get vaccinated, and as less transmission happens, I do believe it will pick up. But no, I’m generally excited.
There’s a ton of money being poured into content, which is very exciting, and as long as that keeps going, as long as the subscription based is happening, it’s great for everybody. Some people will get lost in the shuffle, which is a shame. I have friends who had shows, full shows dropped, I had never even heard about. And that is a shame when that happens, but I think ultimately, as long as it lasts, it’s good for everybody.
In the meantime, more adventurous stuff is being mandated to be made. Can you imagine comparing the television that we grew up with in the ’70s and ’80s compared to now? The Handmaid’s Tale? Or Fleabag. I think the only show that would have done really well back then, is probably Ted Lasso. But it’s very exciting. There’s a wide variety of work being done, and not all of it is just dark antihero stuff. Some of it is a really pleasant story about kindness, and about empathy.
RS: I enjoyed David Sedaris’s MasterClass so much. If they approached you to teach a MasterClass in writing, what would your first lesson look like? What would you wanna tackle right out of the gate?
SC: Right out of the gate, I would tackle how to help people find their best idea. Sometimes I look at things from a mathematical point of view. If I am visiting a college, I will talk to some students, and usually their medium age is 20, and I say, “Okay, how long does it take you to write something?” And they usually say, “I don’t know, about a year,” and I say, “Okay, you got 60 shots. You got 60 shots to come up with something really amazing, to put you on the map, and hopefully something that will stand the test of time.”
It is amazing to me how often writers who are about to spend one of their precious years working on something that nobody would ever want to read or see. Or very few. And so I have a process that I encourage them to write down all of their ideas. (Register them with the guild, you don’t want anybody thieving). And then sharing it with five to ten people that they really trust, no frenemies, people that really want them to succeed, and then having a conversation with all of those people.
If approached to teach a MasterClass:
Right out of the gate, I would tackle how to help people find their best idea.
And very often what happens when you do this process is, (and it’s very exciting), your really smart friends say, “Hey listen, I don’t like this idea that you’re about to spend a year of your life on, but the father character is great, why don’t you use the father character for this idea over here?” And in a very deliberate way, your better ideas, find your better characters, find your better titles, and sometimes find a proper genre. So often, if you think about one idea that does not work at all… let’s say, comedy… you could make it horror and it’s amazing. And so, I always think it’s a really good habit to get into, to scrutinize all of your ideas before you spend time on them.
RS: As a kid, did you have a favorite or a secret hangout?
SC: I had a fort in the woods behind my house. I built it with my friends in the neighborhood, and so we were all invited until some of the older boys, who lived in our neighborhood, tore it apart.
RS: What do you miss about your hometown that you wish you had… Well, I was gonna say here in LA, but now you’ve moved?
SC: My hometown, I wish the Steeler games were on regular television, and I wish the Original O, which still has the best French fries I’ve ever had, and SARRIS chocolate pretzels, which are the best in the world. You heard it here first. And you can order it online, and everyone says, “Oh yeah, sure the best of chocolate pretzels in the world are from Canonsburg, Pennsylvania.” And then I send them this gift sometimes, and everybody goes, “Holy shit, where did you get these pretzels?” and I go, “Canonsburg, Pennsylvania.”
RS: Are you a dog or cat person, and what does that reveal about you?
SC: Dog and nothing.
RS: Worst advice you’ve ever gotten?
SC: Worst advice I’ve ever gotten. It’s a tie. One was advice in film school and one was kind of an assessment of the market back in 1997.
In film school, I was told, “Don’t write anything with flashbacks,” which was terrible advice, and I remember it was spoken with such arrogance that you thought, “Oh, they must be right.” But then I thought, “I don’t know any author that follows that tune, there’s a lot of really good flashback movies, I’m not quite sure where he’s coming from,” so that was the advice.
On Worst Advice:
It’s a tie. In Film School, I was told, “Don’t write anything with flashbacks” and this agent passed on The Perks of Being a Wallflower because he said, “YA is Dead.”
And then in 1997, I remember meeting with a book agent, I had my second draft of, The Perks of Being a Wallflower, and this agent passed on it because he said, “YA is dead.” He said,” if The Catcher in the Rye were written say, now, I don’t know what would happen.” And then, my book was published two years later, along with Laurie Halse Anderson’s amazing book, Speak. We paved the way for a lot of giants like John Green and Gayle Forman, and, so, last I checked, he was wrong.
RS: Do you have any superstitions when writing? Do you have to have things just so, or have to sit in the same chair, drink out of the same mug?
SC: I usually end up wearing a lot of the same clothes, like a uniform. Sometimes it is certain cups or this, that, and the other, but I’m trying deliberately to have less and less of it.
I’m trying to deliberately call it out as the bullshit I believe it is, because I find it very freeing when you suddenly go, “Oh, I need this blank in order to write.” And then the blank gets lost or thrown away by mistake or whatever, and you go, “Oh, I guess, I’m still writing.” So I guess it was all displaced anxiety. And maybe, if I take away these talisman, if I take away these superstitions, maybe that anxiety will find its way on the page and then make it better.
RS: Did you used to have any when on set?
SC: No, not really. I’m too busy worried about what I’m doing.
I try not to break my headsets. I very nervously twist them back and forth. I break a couple. I’m not one of those temper tantrum people. It’s not like that, but I do have a tendency to wear out headphones, and all of my sound folks find me hilarious that way.
RS: When ramping up to make hires, what are some specific questions you ask of your potential DPs or department heads to make sure they’re a good fit for you? Is there a tell-tale sign for you as far as knowing whether or not you’re on the same page?
SC: That’s a great question. I’ve tried to make it conscious and I cannot do it. To me, it’s a feel thing. Do I relate to this person? Do I see it in their work? Or if I don’t see it in their work, do I see it in the way they speak or their hunger to try something new, something that I think will add a freshness?
I wanna meet a lot of people because I wanna hear perspectives, and I also wanna have the benefit of hearing people’s honest opinion about where they think the script is. And it also helps sharpen my vision in terms of what I wanna do with the film, but also why I want to do it, those conversations help. People ask me, “Oh, what drew you to this?” And you answer it five, ten times, the next thing you know, you have a much clearer idea about what the thing is. So to me, ultimately, I believe in casting people over artists. And I know that sounds counterintuitive. Too often people think, “Oh, they’re worth it, or the art is worth it.” And I’ve never found that to be true.
On hiring a DP and Department Heads:
I think people pay way too much attention to resumes and way too little attention to the human being in front of them, and that’s why people get in trouble sometimes.
Ultimately, if you can relate to somebody on a human level, and they have experience in whatever it is they’re doing, whether it’s acting or it’s costume design, whatever it is; but if you can relate, one-on-one, then you’re gonna have a pretty good time with it. You may disagree about some stuff, but ultimately, those disagreements are very small. If you can relate as a human being, ultimately, you all know what pointing north looks like. And you’re all gonna head in the same general direction. I think people pay way too much attention to resumes and way too little attention to the human being in front of them, and that’s why people get in trouble sometimes.
RS: What is your favorite craft service snack?
SC: Oh. Easy. Trail Mix with M&Ms. It’s the death of me.
RS: I was gonna follow that with, are you a sweet or salty person? But it sounds like a mix.
SC: I am a both. And I make movies that make you laugh and cry, so yeah. You need those M&Ms.
RS: I’m sure you’ve heard this question a million times, but I’m gonna ask it anyway. I know you love coming of age stories as well as horror. Is there another genre you’d love to tackle that might surprise people?
SC: I don’t know if it would surprise people, but ultimately, I’ve done a musical, I’ve written a horror novel, and I’ve done some coming of age. I would love to do noir, I would love to do an action movie, and I can’t wait to direct a horror movie.
RS: Is there a film you’d love to remake, and if so, why?
SC: I would like to remake Cabaret.
Sam Mendes has not done his version. I love Sam Mendes’ version of Cabaret so much that I wish that it was a permanent installation on Broadway, so I could see it whenever I wanted to. That’s how much I loved it. And I would wanna make that just so I could watch it.
RS: What do you think you’d do differently?
SC: Nothing. The Bob Fosse movie is brilliant, but the Bob Fosse movie changed a lot of the book, a lot of the characters. You know the young couple was not in it, it was an older couple. There were different songs. It’s much more of a sung through type of musical, where people sing in living rooms in addition to in the Cabaret, and what Fosse and Jay Presson Allen did, the screenwriter, was brilliant. I love that movie, it’s one of my favorite movies of all time. But what Sam Mendes did was brilliant in a completely different way, and I just loved it.
RS: Does anything make you nervous?
SC: After having gone through the pandemic the way that I went through it, the way my family’s gone through it, and the way my friends have gone through it, (and the world), nothing makes me nervous and everything makes me nervous. It’s just anxiety has become part of our world in a way that it never was before in our modern world and things were hell of a lot worse in World War II.
What makes me nervous? The level of hatred, divisive hatred on both sides, about almost everything, makes me nervous, because extremism of any stripe is always something to fear.
RS: What are you binge watching right now?
SC: Ted Lasso and Only Murders in the Building. It’s fantastic.
RS: If you could only choose one, writing or directing, what would you choose at this stage in your career?
SC: That’s a hard one. Here’s a question: could I use my original ideas and only direct them? I would choose writing, but if I could somehow magically just direct those things, then I would choose directing, because directing is much more fun.
RS: Are you a good secret keeper?
SC: No. Not at all.
RS: Okay, last question. What’s the question you wish I would have asked you?
SC: I don’t know what’s left. This is the most thorough interview I’ve done in like five years. (If you asked me: I’m a 44 regular). That was a blast. It was awesome and fun and now I have to eat.
There you have it! The stellar Stephen Chbosky.
You can find his latest book, Imaginary Friend, on Amazon and Dear Evan Hansen is both in theaters and streaming now.
For more Q&A’s go to: www.rebecca-stay.com/blog
Bio:
Stephen is an author, director, and screenwriter. He is best known for his award-winning adaptation of his debut novel, The Perks of Being a Wallflower (GLAAD, Independent Spirit, People’s Choice, WGA nominee) which spent over two years on the New York Times Best Sellers list. He co-wrote the screenplay for Disney’s live-action Beauty and the Beast as well as the film adaptation of RJ Palacio’s Wonder, starring Julia Roberts and Owen Wilson, which he also directed. His first feature, The Four Corners of Nowhere, premiered at the Sundance Film Festival. He wrote the screenplay for the film adaptation of Rent and co-created the post-apocalyptic TV drama, Jericho. His second novel, Imaginary Friend, was published in October and debuted as a New York Times Best Seller.
Stephen recently finished his latest directorial endeavor, the film adaptation of the Tony Awards winning Dear Evan Hansen starring Ben Platt, Amy Adams, Julianne Moore, Kaitlyn Dever and Danny Pino.
