Tag: Current Programming

ADVICE, Interview, People

Script Consultant: Rebecca Stay

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Rebecca Stay. What can I say? We have a complicated relationship. Maybe because we’re forced to be together 24/7. Or maybe because we’ve known each other since (literally) the “Womb.” Who knows. It’s complex.

Is this weird? Absolutely… but I thought it might be amusing (or a much needed distraction) to turn the tables on myself rather than make an ask of someone who is rightfully pre-occupied with life’s pressures — trying to stay afloat during this incredibly difficult time in our industry’s history. 

I’ve been blessed with working in TV for decades — some great years, some confusing ones. What I know for sure (as Oprah would say) is that I’ve been able to do what I love to do, which is to play in the sandbox with some of the most gifted talent and creatives in the industry, for a very long time. And for that I will be forever grateful. 

RS: Describe yourself in a logline.

ME: Script consultant who secretly wants to add “professional pickle ball player” to her resume. 

RS: How did you get your first job?

ME: A childhood bestie got me an interview with her boss at ABC network when she was promoted to another department. I should start with the fact that I probably had no business getting the job. At the time, the only three tools I possessed were: I was a trusting soul, a sense of humor and a handful of street smarts. 

I will say, serendipity has been my lucky charm, my constant as far as my career is concerned.

RS: You’ve worked with some crazy talented people. What was it like working with Salma Hayek?

ME: She was amazing. Driven, creative, passionate. I don’t know why, but one of my favorite memories of her was when we were leaving a meeting at Disney and she turned to me and asked (off the cuff) if I would ever consider being on Dancing with the Stars and without hesitation I said, “Dear God, no. That would be a nightmare. No one needs to see me dance.” And when my response made her laugh out loud hard, it made my day. It’s not that I provided comedy gold, I just think it was in my delivery and how horrified I looked at the prospect. 

I’ve worked with legendary women: Patricia Heaton (along with partner, David Hunt), Salma Hayek (along with partner, Jose Tamez), and Lisa Kudrow (along with partner, Dan Bucatinsky). They all taught me invaluable lessons; I learned the importance of knowing your brand, lessons in confidence and pragmatism, and how to persevere. 

RS: Most of the last half of your career was heading production companies, working with talent. Are those deals challenging? 

ME: For awhile I thought I was getting the reputation for heading talent deals… which isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but yes, these types of TV overall deals are extremely challenging. Among certain circles, they had the reputation for being called “vanity deals.” A way for the studios to reward their talent for making them loads of money. It made it hard to convince executives at outlets to take the projects seriously. It’s already like winning the lottery to get something on the air as a producer so when you put in the mix an actor trying to set something up who has never produced before, it just makes convincing outlets to take a leap of faith that much more difficult. I worked with incredible talent who had incredible taste. Smart, Savvy, Capable… but most of the time it was like working in a Catch 22 black hole. I do think that things have shifted and talent is proving they have what it takes to produce and create. 

RS: What was your most embarrassing moment as an executive? 

ME: It was near the end of my stint at UPN (before it became The CW). We were in a big meeting – the president, my boss (head of drama development), myself and a colleague. The meeting was with a huge producer and a writing team. They were all debating or trying to defend their character choices in the project we were developing with them and I tried several times to chime in because the example they were attempting to use was from a show I previously worked on and knew first hand as to why they might be wrong. I could not get a word in and suddenly I felt so frustrated that I slammed my hands down on the conference table and yelled something out. I don’t recall what I said… I blacked out, which in hindsight was the proper response given I was properly mortified post meeting. 

As we were walking out of the conference room, I turned to my colleague and asked, “Did that just happen?” and she looked at me with a huge grin on her face and said, “That was brilliant.” The funny thing is I’m 100% certain that no one in that room remembers the meeting or me (well, except my co-worker) let alone who was in the room… and yet here it sits… now seared into my memory bank.

It was a clear sign I needed to get out of the job and I did… I left the company shortly thereafter. To be clear, I was not fired! In fact, when my contract was up, they wanted me to stay, but I left because I wanted more time with my newborn and I missed being on the other side of the creative process. 

RS: Best life/career advice you’ve received.

ME: Oh, I have some good ones!

My first boss, Shu Mukai said in my interview with him… “What we do is not brain surgery.” For him, it was about trust. He dealt with confidential budgets, salaries, etc. He needed someone who he could trust and someone who felt comfortable with confidential materials. Pffff. Easy. If I had a middle name (which I don’t), it would be “One who carries secrets well.” But I mean that in a good way… Not a creepy, unlawful way… which should go without saying, but in today’s world, it’s better to be safe than sorry.

Another great one: It’s all about relationships.

An acting teacher at CSULB once told a room of us (striving actors), “It’s all about relationships.” It was during an advanced acting class that you had to audition to get into. (Btw — not easy to get chosen.) He told us to look around the room. He explained quite bluntly that very few of us would go on to make it as a working actor, let alone a successful one. And he was not wrong.

He continued and said for us to look at one another — all around us there may be future writers, producers, casting directors and even executives — so be kind to each other. Be respectful of one another because you never know when we’ll all meet again. Maybe someone in the room has your future in their hands. (He was speaking to how caddy, gossipy, competitive the department could get so the advice also acted as a cautionary tale.) It’s all about relationships, but you have to nurture and nourish those relationships. 

I also try to live by the Four Agreements by Don Ruiz: Always do your best, Don’t take it personally, Be impeccable with your word, and Don’t make assumptions.

Some other good advice seedlings I’ve gotten along the way: Be a good listener. Be a good advocate for writers. And for goodness sake — be yourself! There’s only one you so take advantage of that fact. (I’m still working on that last one.)

RS: Script Consulting can get a bad rap. What should people know about it?

ME: Script consulting has been and continues to be a hot (ok… Maybe not “hot” — Luke warm?) filled topic and debate. 

You’re either seen as someone who cheats writers out of their hard earned money or as someone a writer can’t live without. I’ve read and heard extreme opinions. Someone once told me that we pay money for hobbies, money for vacations, money for daily coffees… If you love writing and you want to get better, why not invest in someone who will support and guide you in your endeavor? 

On the one hand, yes, there is so much free content out there — to help writers deepen their craft. But rarely will you receive detailed notes and care you’ll get from the right consultant. Script consultant, Jen Grisanti has made a cottage industry out of the job. Incredibly impressive. I believe she was one of the pioneers. She seems to do it all — Speaker, classes, books, podcasts, panels. 

I do believe people should know that when you hire a consultant, that doesn’t mean all your problems with your script disappears. You may have ten more future drafts to look forward to. I think a writer should absolutely use their inner circle for early drafts. But you have to pick and choose those favors and know that your friends are not going to give you an endless well of reads and notes. You can’t take advantage of them. And they are not going to get in the weeds with you as far as feedback and support. 

I think consultants should be sought out when you’ve hit your wall and you’ve used up all of your free read cards with your inner circle. I also recommend seeking people who wear different hats to read your material — that will offer up different perspectives. A director, a writer, and if you have the relationships, you should absolutely get the perspective of development/creative executive (buyer/seller or both). 

And as far as the cost? It can feel pricey, but you know what? I’ve spent decades in the business and have a lot to offer. My time is valuable and it holds worth.

RS: How does one choose a script consultant?

ME: If you Google “script consultant” thousands come up. You could scroll for days. How do you choose?! Word of mouth, looking at various websites… When you zero in on a few, what is their mission statement? What’s their call to action? Talk to them – tell them what you’re looking for… You may have to look around some before you land on the right fit. It’s not a one size fits all scenario. I’m very detail oriented. That might not be for everyone. 

RS: What do you love about consulting?

ME: Plain and simple, I love helping writers… it’s my happy place. I spend way more time on material than my “hourly rate” because I enjoy the process… I love mulling and absorbing the material… contemplating. Nothing brings me more joy than after I’ve delivered my notes and seeing the glee on my writer’s face, hearing they’ve been inspired to dive back in. When they tell me that my notes helped them see the direction they need to now head into… and still be excited? Nothing better.

RS: Do you have a special talent that would surprise people?

ME: Yes, I have two quirky talents: 1) I can wiggle my ears. Let me tell you, NOT an easy task. I inherited this gift from my dad… not sure you can teach it, but one day, I was able to just do it. And 2) I can yelp like a puppy’s paw is being stepped on. Don’t ask me how that came to be… though it’s a really good impersonation and no — no puppies were harmed in the sharpening of this talent.

RS: Do you have a favorite word?

ME: At the moment, my favorite word is, “Adjacent.” Ask me tomorrow and I’m sure it will be different.

RS: Proudest Moment(s).

ME: When I finally got my first EP credit on the CBS half hour series, Carol’s Second Act starring Patricia Heaton. As “they” say, there were a lot of cooks in that kitchen. Many talented people, but when there are too many, it starts to muddy what the show has the potential to be… I learned a few things about myself during that run. It was an education for sure.

I’m also proud of being responsible for giving some writers their first gigs and then watching as they rose through the ranks and found much success. It’s also not a bad feeling to be heard and respected by writers you love and admire. 

RS: What are your best and worst attributes? 

ME: My best: I’m patient, a good listener, I advocate for those who need it, and I think I have good instincts when it comes to material and writers.

My worst? It sounds schmaltzy, but probably my passion. I’m like a dog with a bone and have a hard time letting go when it comes to projects that are not going to work out. What’s the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? Yeah, that might be me. 

RS: How would you describe your personality? 

ME: Besides having a dual personality doing this q&a? I’d say Creative, Enthusiastic, Organized, Playful, and Positive.

RS: Words to describe how you work with others:

ME: Collaborative, Supportive, Respectful, Honest, Empathetic.

RS: Do you have a favorite tchotchke?

ME: My “Belle Maison” cup filled with No 2 pencils from all over the US and world. I love collecting them. Pencils represent writing which represents creativity which represents my love of putting thoughts down on paper. 

RS: Do you have any regrets?

ME: I’d like to think that all regrets lead you to where you’re meant to be at any given time. That is a comforting notion. If I had to pick a career regret as an executive… I might say I regret not going down the current executive road. I think I would have been good at it.

RS: Any pet peeves?

ME: When someone talks over you. I don’t like it because I used to be guilty of doing the same (and may still fall back into that habit now and again). It just speaks to how un-self aware you are when you do that – you’re not truly paying attention to the conversation if you’re only waiting for the person to stop talking. It becomes all about your own voice and you lose out on a potentially wonderful conversation — or learning something from someone by truly listening and having an equal back and forth dialogue.

RS: What is not on your resume?

ME: I ran a Half Marathon and so far it seems I’ve conquered my muscle disease (Myasthenia Gravis). At the very least I’m enjoying a very long remission. So I suppose that makes me both determined and resilient. I’m definitely a fighter.

RS: What’s a question you wish I asked and one you’re glad I didn’t?

ME: Given I’m in control of this q&a, this q feels unfair. That said…

I wish you (I) would have asked, “Have you ever won a contest before?” And I’d say, Yes! My friend and I came in first place in a talent contest in Elementary school and I also placed second in a high school drama festival – in individual pantomime. 

I’m glad you didn’t ask, “What’s your favorite Color?” because the podcast, Smartless makes fun of Sean Hayes for asking q’s like that… Plus, I have too many favorites, it would be difficult to zero in on just one.

And there you have it. The resilient Rebecca Stay enduring the oddest Q&A she’s done thus far! 

For more q&a’s go to:  www.rebecca-stay.com/blog

Bio: 

Go to: https://rebecca-stay.com/about

 

 

ADVICE, Interview, People

Kelly Pancho: Not Your Typical Studio Executive

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Kelly Pancho is a Current Executive for CBS Studios. She is responsible for shows both on streaming and cable outlets.

Kelly has a lovely demeanor. She’s one of those executives that always appears to be calm and poised, which is a wonderful asset to possess, especially when you’re in a job that requires you to constantly put out fires. But who knew simmering under her executive armor was a writer/director just waiting to come out from under the surface? Recently she wrote and directed a short film called, GROUNDED, which made its screening debut at Comic Con this year for the San Diego Int’l Children’s Film Festival.

RS: Describe yourself in a logline.

KP: I currently work as a studio exec and have a passion for filmmaking, all things space-related, and ice cream.

RS: You moved from producing and development to current programming. What has been the biggest difference? Was there a learning curve? 

KP: Learning the internal responsibilities and processes that are unique to the studio has been a challenge. Moving to current (programming) also means you’re always in “go” mode because you’re constantly shooting. 

RS: Tell me something that’s not on your resume? 

KP: My first job working in production was at Nickelodeon: I still have fond memories of shooting in the scorching Florida heat and the sickly smell of slime.

What is a piece of advice you’d give both an emerging writer and established one?

Kelly:

I’d encourage any emerging writers to be open to collaboration. To seasoned writers, I’d say find something in every project that still gets you excited.

RS: From your perspective and after working in the industry as long as you have, what is a piece of advice you would give an emerging writer? What would you tell an established writer? 

KP: I’d encourage any emerging writers to be open to collaboration. I’ve encountered many writers newer to the process that are so protective of their concepts (asking producers to sign an NDA or not discussing ideas openly) that they miss an opportunity to engage. To seasoned writers, I’d say find something in every project that still gets you excited.

RS: What do you wish someone would have taught you early on?  

KP: That the industry is small and whatever lane you pick is the lane where you’ll find opportunities.

RS: How do you work with writers? Are you hands on or more of an arm’s length kind of executive? Do you have a particular process unique to you?  

KP: I think writers would describe me as hands-on. That said, I always try to be mindful of the big picture, no matter how detailed my notes may be: is the audience going to follow your story? Is your intent coming through? Are we servicing the character arcs in a meaningful way? I feel responsible for helping writers circumnavigate potential issues (i.e. getting ahead of notes we know the network will give) and be a sounding board. I’m also there to support the writer when they have to address a tricky note, yet preserve the creative integrity of their work.

When do you know a script won’t make it over the finish line?

Kelly:

The 2nd draft. That said, the first story area (will show) if there are going to be major script issues down the line.

RS: When do you reach the realization that a script is not going to make it over the finish line? After how many drafts?  

KP: The second draft, once you’ve seen how the notes have (or haven’t) been addressed. That said, it’s also clear right from the first story area if there are going to be major script issues down the line.

RS: It’s clear you have a propensity to create. What was the inspiration behind the story of your short film, GROUNDED?

KP: Despite having always worked on the exec side of things, I truly love directing and writing. At heart I’m a film geek, so I love cameras and rigs and editing and production design. I’ve started directing shorts in my spare time to feed that creative beast.

I wanted to shoot a short on a shoestring: one actor, using natural light, and only what I had on hand (in this case, my backyard). Our dilapidated shed reminded me of this cupboard that used to scare the crap out of me as a kid. It was dark, menacing, and made my young mind run wild. That provided the inspiration for the core conflict: the yard itself had to come to life!

RS: Being an executive, did you call upon a lot of favors re: casting, gathering a crew, etc.? 

KP: Yes, I definitely benefited by being surrounded with talented people in my working life. The actor was the son of my boss, several of my crew were former assistants, and my fantastic DP, Mika, came recommended from a DP I admired and worked with on a broadcast pilot.  

RS: Now that you have dipped your toe into the other side of the creative pond (writing and directing), are your colleagues looking at you in a different light?

KP: I’m not sure if it’s a different light, but it’s sparked a lot of conversations and reminded me there’s a lot of great creative minds out there.    

RS: Your short was invited to screen at Comic Con. Did you enjoy watching people watch it? 

KP: I found it simultaneously gratifying and terrifying, because you’re always hoping they’ll react in the way you intended (are they laughing, are they enjoying themselves?). I was surprised and honored for the film to have been invited to screen there – I had never been before and it was a blast!  

RS: What kinds of material do you gravitate towards?  

KP: I love anything with a strong story engine that makes me sit up in my seat. I tend to gravitate towards stories about people discovering their voices, their strengths, etc.

RS: What hobbies do you partake in – in order to destress?

KP: I enjoy playing piano, ice skating, and painting/crafty stuff, although I’m not sure any of those things necessarily help me to destress…I’m too much of a perfectionist. If I need to destress, it’s a day at the spa!

RS: It’s vacation time. Do you choose a beach, a mountain adventure, or a city with much culture to explore?

KP: The beach is my happy place.

If starting out today, how would you navigate as an executive?

Kelly:

Your network of people grows from those early relationships. I’d be more mindful about where in the industry I was planting my roots.

RS: If you were just starting out today, how would you go about navigating the executive dance? Anything you would do differently?

KP: If I were starting out again, I’d be more mindful about where in the industry I was planting my roots, as your network of people grows from those early relationships. The early part of my career was spent in an adjacent part of the industry and I didn’t transition into development/production until much later. That said, I’ve found real value in my background now (and also met my husband that way!), so I wouldn’t change anything.

RS: What job outside of the industry would you be drawn to?

KP: Theoretical physics. I like learning how the world works.

RS: It’s evident that TV continues to be an over-saturated market. What’s the good news for writers and producers? What’s the bad news? 

KP: The good news is that there’s always a market for great stories and talented people. However, it does feel like not as many projects are being bought as in years past, so there are times when even good projects may not be picked up because there’s simply not enough slots.

RS: Beyond agents and managers, do you have other means or resources as to how you find new voices? 

KP: I tend to let manager and agents introduce us because there is a vetting process there. That said, I’ve directly connected with writers through the WGA platform, have occasionally taken a cold-call general, and love meeting writers from the studio diversity programs. I’ll also lean on my assistant to flag any newer writers that are worth looking at.

RS: As a viewer, what’s your favorite type of show? Do you have a favorite Podcast?

KP: I feel like my taste varies, but in general I love shows with strong characters, some adventure, some comedy, and heart. I tend not to gravitate to anything on either end of the spectrum – nothing too dark or too fluffy. I love a fun ride and want to be entertained, but want to feel real stakes.

I don’t listen to a ton of podcasts, but I love Team Deakins, which my husband introduced me to. It’s hosted by the legendary DP Roger Deakins and his partner, James. They have these amazing, really honest, in-depth discussions with everyone — from other DPs, to Directors, and ADs.

RS: Name one of your idiosyncrasies.

KP: I fidget! I never realized how much until I was forced to stare at myself on zoom calls and noticed that everyone else can sit still properly for an hour. Also, I have to take off my shoes when I have to really concentrate. I have no idea why. 

(Side Note: I read that when we take off our shoes and our feet feel the ground beneath us, it reduces stress as well as grounds and focuses us. It also helps to curl your toes into the carpet, dirt, grass, etc.)

RS: When do you feel most creative and how do you stay creative?

KP: It randomly comes in spurts – sometimes I wake up and have to find a pen and scribble (down) an idea. In terms of staying creative, I think you have to stay curious and keep a sense of wonder about the world.

RS: Outside of the job, what’s the last thing you learned?

KP: That life will continually kick you in the ass if you let it. And also that my dog will eat anything if he sees me eat it first.

What are some of your pet peeves?

Kelly:

Arrogance and people who mistreat those who work for them. Also, (writers) don’t be sloppy, proof your scripts!

RS: Do you have any pet peeves?  

KP: Arrogance and people who mistreat those who work for them. There’s no excuse for either. Also, (writers) don’t be sloppy. Proof your scripts! 

RS: With general meetings, what are you looking for in a writer? 

KP: I want to get a sense of the writer’s personality and story sense. Are they collaborative? Quick on their feet? How do they approach character? What are their tastes, do they understand story structure? I usually don’t approach these questions head-on, but like to get a sense of them through the general course of conversation.

RS: Do you have a piece of advice a parent or a best friend gave you that has been helpful through out the years? Words to live by when life gets hard?

KP: You won’t know if you don’t try.

RS: Has anyone ever told you that you look like someone famous? If so, who?

KP: Nope. I’m half-asian and half-caucasian, so there aren’t a ton of us out there. I hope that changes.

What is the secret to a successful pitch?

Kelly:

In my experience, it’s when the writer has cracked what the show is “about” on a deep level and it’s baked into the character arcs and story engine. It doesn’t matter if you have the most amazing visuals or a fantastic package…

If you don’t have a clear theme that is woven into the execution of the story, you don’t have a show.

RS: In your opinion, what’s the secret to a successful pitch? 

KP: In my experience, it’s when the writer has really cracked what the show is “about” on a deep level, and it’s baked into the character arcs and story engine. That applies to both comedies and dramas. It doesn’t matter if you have the most amazing visuals or a fantastic package – if you don’t have a clear theme that is woven into the execution of the story, you don’t have a show.

RS: How do you define failure?

KP: Never trying in the first place.

RS: What does taking a risk look like for you?

KP: It’s doing something out of your comfort zone.

RS: Is there a line from a movie or TV show that you often quote?

KP: Clever girl.

(SIDE NOTE: If you don’t know this quote it’s said by the raptor hunter, Muldoon – from Jurassic Park. I LOVE this quote and use it all the time.)

RS: What inspires you? 

KP: People who are passionate about and really good at their craft.

RS: The material you’ve loved — what specific things did the script include that made it so good? 

KP: Get me invested in a character and I’m along for the ride. I love stories that balance drama and comedy. I’m also a sucker for a strong story structure – not in the sense of something being formulaic, but in planning out a story in such a way that the characters are constantly being challenged and struggling and learning and growing. That’s the good stuff.

RS: Is there a showrunner out there you’d love to work with? What do you love about them?

KP: Jon Favreau! He’s found a way to take the heart of what people love about the massive Star Wars franchise and plays to it. In every interview, he’s obviously such a fan and has done his homework. Not to mention he produced a show utilizing a new technology and workflow, which must have been challenging.

I also recently re-watched the pilot of Orphan Black and have admired Graeme Manson from afar.

RS: What’s the biggest compliment you’ve ever received? 

KP: A showrunner I developed with told me that I should be a writer – I can’t think of a higher compliment.

RS: What’s the hardest piece of criticism you’ve ever received?

KP: Someone I admired felt I wasn’t being respectful of them. I was so taken aback, but it made me reflect on my approach to different people.

RS: Describe your favorite meal.

KP: One shared with my family and friends and ending with something sweet!

RS: What is next for you on the writing/directing side of your life? 

KP: I’m steadily working on shorts in my spare time as a labor of love. I shot another short during the height of the pandemic in my house with only myself, my husband, and my sister.  It was a challenge and a great reminder that even when shooting on an iPhone with basically no crew, you can still create an engaging story. I’m editing that now and am currently writing a short that I hope to shoot during a long weekend in the spring.  

RS: Ok. What question do you wish I would have asked? What question are you glad I didn’t?

KP: Hmmm…you didn’t ask what my favorite movies are! I love movies as much as TV and could wax poetic about them for days. I’m glad you didn’t ask where I’m from. Because I’m from Florida… Yeah, I know. 

And there you have it. The “K”aptivating Kelly Pancho! For the record, I would never shame her for where she’s from. That said, it does go to show you — generalizations are just that and there are always exceptions to the rule! 

And btw… the picture with Kelly and the fake rabbit? Are you thinking what I’m thinking? Only a creative mind, right? Priceless. 

If you liked this post, you might like: https://rebecca-stay.com/eric-kim-current-executive-extraordinaire

Bio: 

Kelly Pancho is a VP of Streaming & Cable Current Series for CBS Studios. She was previously the Head of Development at CannyLads Productions and produced the comedy series I FEEL BAD. Before working in development, Pancho oversaw the creative team at Deluxe, and produced behind-the-scenes featurettes and games. She currently resides in Los Angeles with her husband and two Shar Peis.   

ADVICE, Interview, People1 Comment

Steve Tao: Riding the Current Programming Wave

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Steve Tao. When we first met, I knew we were going to be fast friends due to our love of flea markets and Melrose Place. Steve is smart, Uber passionate… and don’t get him started on how to travel! That subject deserves a whole other Q&A.

Steve is a Current Executive at the CW and found time to share some of his past, some tips, what his latest binge worthy show is and for someone so gregarious (at least I think so) a reveal that really surprised me about him. 

RS: Where did you grow up? 

ST: Palo Alto, CA, when it was a college town, not a Silicon Valley hub.

RS: Who was your best friend growing up? What was something they taught you?

ST: My next door neighbor Lisa, who taught me curiosity (we got into a lot of trouble.)

RS: Who was your favorite mentor and why?

ST: Julie Rothenberg, an assistant at the first company I interned for, who saw I could do more than make copies and coffee and connected me to a producer who let me read scripts and write coverage for him. She became a colleague and confidant.

RS: What is the best advice you’ve ever received? 

ST: Don’t get mad; get even. I’ve been disappointed by people I respected, screwed over by people I didn’t trust, and abandoned by people I thought were my friends. I learned that my own success was the best revenge.

On the best advice: I learned that my own success was the best revenge.

RS: You’ve worked in both development and current. What has been the best experience from both sides of the coin? The worst?

ST: Best: being the Head of Drama at ABC, where I could buy projects from up and coming writers in the room, and work with showrunners like David Kelley, Ann Donahue, and Howard Gordon. Worst:  (Development) Being an independent producer trying to sell shows during the economic downturn of the late 2000s when no one would buy and trying to figure out how to pay my mortgage); (Current) Being a producer on a show that didn’t work, where we ripped apart episodic scripts, moved episodes around, and had to convince our writing staff not to bail. I’m still traumatized by the last experience!

RS: I found this question on Google, so I can’t take credit for it, but I love it. Describe your job to an extraterrestrial who just landed in Central Park. 

ST: I help people make TV shows.

RS: You’ve been doing this job for many years. How do you remain challenged? 

ST: The nature of storytelling has changed over the years. I used to do a lot of cop and legal procedurals; now I work on serialized and genre shows. We used to tell a one hour episode in 46 minutes in broadcast; now we do it in 42 minutes. I’ve been on the buying side, the selling side, and the producing side. I still love making shows that people watch and I love the emotional impact the show (my shows) have on audiences. Finding shows that reach an ever evolving audience is what keeps me going.

Finding shows that reach an ever evolving audience is what keeps me going.

RS: When you feel stagnate, how do you snap yourself out of that state of being?

ST: I travel to a place to give me a different perspective.

RS: Name one embarrassing moment you’ve experienced as an executive.

ST: I was interviewing an executive candidate and got his name wrong. The entire interview. I apologized over email after he left. Mortifying.

RS: What’s something about you not reflected in your Bio? 

ST: I want to learn how to speak Mandarin fluently.

RS: What’s something about you that would surprise those that know you?

ST: I am shy. Really.  (Side Note: This surprised me!) 

RS: When staffing a show, what do you look for in a writer? What will knock the writer out of the running? 

ST: I’m looking for someone who can create good characters, give the characters interesting dilemmas or choices, and find an entertaining story. I want to remember the writing, not just think it’s fine. If it’s just fine, then I’m on to the next.

Give characters interesting dilemmas or choices. I want to remember the writing, not just think it’s fine.

RS: When reading scripts for staffing, how many pages do you need to read before you know this person is either right or wrong for a specific staffing job? 

ST: I know in the first ten pages, but usually read 20-30.

RS: What’s important to you as far as character descriptions in a script? What are the right amount of adjectives to use? To describe a character?   

ST: I like to experience the character in the script, not just be told the characteristics in the narrative. I like writers who bring out their characters in their actions and choices.

RS: How do you give dialogue notes? 

ST: I usually only give dialogue notes if something doesn’t fit with the character arc, or if it’s confusing to me. I rarely quote the line that I would prefer to have, but give them an idea of what I’d like.

On giving dialogue notes: Only give if something doesn’t fit with the character arc or is confusing.

RS: How have you evolved in your note giving?

ST: I’m faster. I’m still diplomatic and supportive, but writers want to hear the notes and start addressing them. They want to know what you like in a script, and what you think needs work.

RS: What do you think the biggest challenge is (that we face) in our business? 

ST: The biggest challenge is the way the audience receives our shows, and how we as creators can monetize the viewership so we can keep making these shows.

RS: At the end of the film Castaway, Tom Hanks stands at a fork in the road… looking at the four corners for a sign as far as the best way to move forward in his life. Did you ever have that moment where you grappled with which road to go down? What did you grapple with?  

ST: I’ve had so many forks in the road; the biggest one was whether or not to move to New York to work for a cable company getting into the scripted business. Then 9/11 happened and scripted didn’t happen, so I got off that path and found one that got me back to Los Angeles.

RS: I know one of your favorite things to do is to travel.  What has been your best vacation thus far?  Why?

ST: Just recently, we honeymooned in The Maldives. Best. Vacation. Ever. We relaxed, we saw some of the most beautiful marine life ever, and we ate some of the freshest seafood ever, while meeting friends from all over the world. If that doesn’t qualify for a perfect vacation, I don’t know what does. Oh, and we checked off my bucket list to stay in an overwater bungalow.

RS: Is there anything you’re obsessed with right now? 

ST: Finding something interesting to watch on TV.  Seems like we’ve binged everything good lately.

RS: What’s the last show you binge watched?

ST: MARE OF EASTTOWN in two nights.

RS: What are some of your hobbies…. that get your creative juices going?

ST: I cook. It’s creative and rewarding.

RS: What character on a show mirrors who you are or encapsulates your traits? 

ST: I’m unique. No character is like me!

RS: Proudest career moment? 

ST: The show I championed (THE PRACTICE at ABC) winning the Emmy for Outstanding Drama. The show was not a favorite at the network at first, but I loved it and championed it until it got the attention it deserved.

And there you have it. The stupendous Steve Tao in a nutshell! 

For more on current programming from a different perspective, you might like: https://rebecca-stay.com/eric-kim-current-executive-extraordinaire

Bio: 

Steve Tao is a veteran film and television executive and producer with more than twenty years of experience at Studios, Networks, and Production Companies. He started his career as a film executive at Walt Disney and Touchstone Pictures working on films such as THE THREE MUSKETEERS and HOCUS POCUS.  He then moved to television and became Head of Drama for ABC Television, where he led the Emmy Award winning THE PRACTICE, ONCE AND AGAIN, and NYPD BLUE.  Afters stints with VH1, Gale Anne Hurd’s company Valhalla Television, and JJ Abrams’ Bad Robot, he is currently VP of Current Programming at the CW Network, where he oversees many of the network’s biggest hits, including WALKER (highest rated new show on the CW since 2015), ALL AMERICAN (highest ranked digital show), BATWOMAN (highest rated new show last year), and KUNG FU (highest rated show among Asian Americans).

A native Californian, he earned his B.A. in Economics and Mathematics at Claremont McKenna College in Claremont, California.  He also earned an M.B.A. from the Anderson Graduate School of Management at UCLA.  He currently serves as the co-chair of the CAPE New Writers Fellowship for the Coalition of Asian Pacifics In Entertainment (www.capeusa.org), one of the largest professional groups in Hollywood, where he recently retired as Board Chairman.  He also serves as an Advisory Board member for the Claremont in Entertainment and Media alumni group for the Claremont Colleges.  He’s an avid traveler, foodie, and consumer of all things pop culture.

You can find Steve on Instagram and Twitter: @MileageRunner

ADVICE, Interview, People

Eric Kim: TV Current Executive Extraordinaire

|Eric.Kim|

Eric Kim. We go way, way back. I met him when I joined UPN (currently known as The CW network) as VP of Drama Development. He was in current programming and one of the nicest, loveliest humans ever. He was incredibly welcoming and my type of executive: empathetic, passionate, and gregarious.

Today he is Head of Current Programming at CBS. For me, a great current executive’s main job is to be support for the showrunner(s). I think open lines of communication are absolutely key. That and to be able to have those honest, respectful conversations that aren’t always easy to have. It’s definitely a skill set that is honed over time. (One I’m still working on.) You also help put out fires — hopefully before they turn into full on wildfires.

Historically, current execs were (at times) looked upon as the enemy. Years ago, a friend of mine told me that she was assigned to a show where the showrunner was known to be difficult. Sure enough, he fought her at every turn and eventually broke her down. He actually made her cry on a notes call. CRY. Luckily, he was rightfully reprimanded by the head of the department and he never did it again. In fact, they became friends and she ultimately won him over.

I don’t think it’s that way anymore. But I do get it. Emotions run high, there’s a lot at stake (for ALL) and for creators, they put their blood, sweat and tears into their creations. Heart and soul.  And… trust is something to be earned with any relationship and in all industries. Showrunners want to know the execs have their best interests at heart. And they do. They really, really do. It takes a whole community of people to make a show. Millions of dollars that are not yours, are being pumped into a series. Everyone is invested and everyone wants to see it succeed.

Eric Kim is one of those unsung heroes.

RS:  Where did you grow up?

EK:  I was born in Michigan, but when I was 5 years old my parents (both college professors) were offered an opportunity to return to Korea to teach. My older sisters and my mom were VERY reluctant to move, so my father struck a deal with them (I was 5, no one gave a crap what I was feeling); if it wasn’t working out after one year, we would return to the US. My sisters and I ended up staying all the way until we graduated high school.  We only had one English speaking channel when we were growing up (the American Forces Network) so I had no idea which shows we got to watch were on what broadcast networks.

RS:  How did you break into the industry? 

EK:  My first real break in entertainment was as an intern/PA on the movie “Philadelphia”.  I was a senior at Penn, and one of my sister’s best friends was the assistant to Jonathan Demme’s producing partner, so she called me up and asked if I wanted to be a PA for her. I had no idea what a PA was, but I had a very light credit load my last year in college, so I shrugged and said “sure”.

Now, I loved movies, but I never contemplated working in entertainment until that job. Everyone I came across was so nice, dynamic, and smart, and I thought it was just so cool that we were all here to make a movie (if you look very closely in one of the library scenes, you will see me playing a very annoyed student in the background). The movie wrapped and I quickly found myself unemployed after graduation, so I hit up my sister’s friend and got lucky when they hired me as an assistant in Jonathan’s production company in New York.

My first break in TV came after I moved from New York to LA. I was working as a temp at UPN for one day and heard that the head of comedy development, Kelly Edwards, was looking for an assistant, so the HR manager hooked me up with an interview. The assistant at the time was about to get married and had mentally checked out, so I think Kelly was just happy to find someone who was eager to answer some phones and not mess up her calendar.

RS:  Once in, did you ever have aspirations to get into a development job or another aspect of the business or did you always gravitate toward being a current executive? 

EK:  Early on, not so much because I was still learning the ropes and the basics of just how television gets made as a Current Executive. I think over the years there have definitely been times when I have looked over the fence and contemplated pursuing something more purely development focused, or something that combined both, i.e. developing projects and then seeing them through Current if they got picked up to series.

I think many of us who have been doing Current for a while feel like we do possess the skill set to be able to identify new ideas and projects, know what it takes for a show to maintain and find success, and really understand how to work with writers.

RS:  How would you define being a Current Executive for those out there not truly understanding the job? 

EK:  The analogy I often use is that while development builds the train, our job is to keep that train running smoothly on the tracks, on time, on budget, and creatively and financially successful for as long as we can. Specifically, it means we are reading and watching all the material that comes in, giving notes, and generally overseeing all the various needs of a show.

Our job is to keep that train running smoothly on the tracks, on time, on budget, and creatively and financially successful for as long as we can.

Not to mix analogies here, but the other way to look at it is if a show is a wheel, the Current department is the center hub where all the spokes of the different departments run through – casting, business affairs, scheduling, publicity, finance, marketing, research, etc…  We’re the first point of contact for anyone who needs something from the show or producers, and vice versa, we are the point person for the Producers with regards to anything they require from the Studio or Network.

RS:  What do you enjoy most about your job? 

EK:  Just working with really nice, smart, creative people. Reading a great script or watching a great cut. Finding new talented writers and directors, and also seeing some of them go on to great success. Being able to have a small hand in helping a show get made, produced, and aired.

RS:  What’s the most important aspect of your job? The hardest part? 

EK:  I think one of the most important aspects of this job is the relationship you have with your showrunners, and building a sense of trust and responsibility with them.  These are the folks you will be in communication with the most over the life of a series so it’s critical.  The hardest part is probably giving notes! It definitely gets a little easier over time and with experience, but a difficult notes call can still unnerve the best of us!

RS:  How has your note giving skills evolved through the years? Do you pick and choose your battles? 

EK:  Maybe because I’m older I’ve learned to relax a little more. I try to make my notes with Producers as much of a conversation and dialogue as possible. Not saying I’m always successful in this regard, but I strive for that.

I look at covering a show and working with Producers as a long term relationship that will hopefully carry on for not only many, many episodes over a season, but for many more years to come (knock on wood).

And you absolutely must pick and choose your battles — see my previous answer about building a good relationship with your showrunners! Not every note is worth dying on the hill for. I look at covering a show and working with Producers as a long term relationship that will hopefully carry on for not only many, many episodes over a season, but for many more years to come (knock on wood). So you can’t always come out guns blazing on every single piece of material. At the end of the day, even if we disagree on something, that’s totally fine, its part of the creative process, and you ultimately have to trust and let the writers do what they know best.

RS:  What do you wish someone would have taught you early on about how to navigate this job? 

EK:  Seek out mentors and guidance from those who might have more experience. Don’t be afraid to voice your opinion. Not every note is worth giving.

RS:  In general meetings with writers, what do you look for? 

EK:  I like to learn who they are as people, where they’re from, how or why they became writers. What makes them tick, what do they like to watch or read. What do they not like.  Have some fun or great stories to share in telling me these things, bring some energy. In a nutshell, have a point of view. Remember we are often taking several general meetings, so you want to leave a lasting impression.

RS:  So… you’re staffing for one of your shows. You read someone you love and set a meeting to get to know them. What are some do’s and don’ts a writer should consider before walking into the room to sit down with you? 

EK:  

— DO know what show you are meeting on (yes, I have had writers tell me they have no idea why they are meeting me).

— DO try to have seen as many episodes of the show you’re being considered for. No one expects you to have watched the last 11 seasons of Blue Bloods, but it would be nice if you’ve taken the time to watch some of the more recent ones. Almost everything can be found online.

— DO have an opinion of the show. It’s okay to be constructively critical. We know what the problems are on a show, or what’s not working and we’re probably the harshest critics of our own shows. Often you might be meeting because we’re trying to find writers to remedy those issues so its good to have opinions.

— DO ask questions. Again, if it’s a long running show and you haven’t seen everything, its okay to ask some specific questions.

— DON’T gossip too much about other writers or shows that you’ve worked on. Little fun anecdotes can be fun, but you never know who we might know or work with.

— DON’T pitch a lot of story or episode ideas you have. That’s something to save for if/when you get an opportunity to meet with the showrunner(s). This is different than having an opinion on the show.

RS:  What level of writer are the Showrunners free to bring onto their show without a network signing off? Any? 

EK:  Well, technically, the network has to sign off on all levels, but in my experience, usually the lower level writers (staff writer or even story editor) who the showrunner(s) have identified don’t get the same level of scrutiny, and we usually trust their choices.  I can’t recall an instance in which a staff writer who a showrunner wanted was not approved.  That being said, I still like to read their sample and meet them since they’re part of the writing staff.

RS:  When reading scripts, do you have any pet peeves re: formatting? 

EK:  I do prefer the standard formatting, but as long as you aren’t wildly diverting from it, I’m okay. But like who is doing that??? What I do find to be a pet peeve are typos and grammatical errors. It happens, I know, but it really shouldn’t…c’mon people! Take the extra time to proofread.

RS:  What are your thoughts on describing a character by ethnicity? Do you think it should be completely left out? What’s an instance when you feel it should be written in?    

EK:  Great question! Honestly, generally speaking I feel like that is the writer’s prerogative depending on what their vision is. If they had an ethnicity in mind while writing it, I’m all for the specificity of the vision they have for the character, the story they are trying to tell, and in the best case, it actually feels additive and organic and adds an interesting layer to the character.

Where I do find things to be problematic is when the ethnicity of the character is specified but then is written in a stereotypical fashion. Sometimes egregiously, but sometimes in small unconsciously biased ways.

On the flip side, if they didn’t specify an ethnicity, I don’t necessarily find that to be problematic because ideally it is leaving wide open the possibility of what kind of casting choices can be made. Who ends up being cast, of course, is another debate and story. Where I do find things to be problematic is when the ethnicity of the character is specified but then is written in a stereotypical fashion. Sometimes egregiously, but sometimes in small unconsciously biased ways.

RS:  I’m stealing a question from the conversation game, “VERTELL?S”: What was the best compliment you’ve ever received?

EK:  I think the best compliment I got was when I heard producers request that I cover their shows.

RS:  What’s been a TV show you wished you had worked on (outside of the obvious CBS show)?

EK:  Haha! Aw, I miss our show RS!

Man, that’s a tough question because there have been so many great shows here at CBS and elsewhere. My mind keeps going to more of a time period in the industry and less about specific shows; a time when there were huge water cooler shows that you couldn’t miss that had massive juggernaut ratings, and how cool and fun it must have been to work on shows during that time — stuff like CSI when it launched, Lost, The West Wing, The Sopranos, etc.., or any of the huge comedy hits like Cheers, Friends, Raymond, etc… You had the whole country, if not the whole world, talking about shows the next day!

Don’t get me wrong, I love the massive amount of choices now in broadcast, streaming, and cable, and really interesting, smart, creative shows would never have been made in the old system. But it’s always really fun when a massive hit comes along that EVERYONE is watching and talking about.

RS:  And finally, your favorite thing to do that helps jumpstart your creative juices?  

EK:  I think playing with my kids or seeing what they’re into. It can be refreshing and eye-opening, but it often just reminds me of how old I am!

And there you have it.  A lovely walk down the Current Executive lane. Thx E!

If you liked this post, you may like: https://rebecca-stay.com/steve-tao-riding-the-current

Bio:

Eric Kim is currently Senior Vice President of Current Programs at CBS Television. In that capacity, he has overseen all phases of production on both comedy and drama series such as Clarice, B Positive, Blue Bloods, FBI Most Wanted, FBI International, and upcoming new comedy Smallwood. Prior to CBS, Eric worked in live action series for Nickelodeon and Teen Nick. Eric was Vice President of Programming at the CW and part of the creative team that launched the new network. After graduating from the University of Pennsylvania with a Bachelor of Arts degree in English Literature, Eric got his start in the entertainment industry working for director Jonathan Demme in New York. Kim currently sits on the board of Colour Entertainment, a non-profit organization of diverse executives in the media landscape; he is also a Board Member of non-profit Korean American Leaders in Hollywood (KALH).